Wish there was more to cold conversion items for devastation like on a sceptor or something, currently just gotta go for arcanum frigus (or frigilus?) or those specific affix modifier roll items that then reduce the damage by 35% on it. Oh well, maybe with FOA?
how is that an issue, remotely? - it literally gives you everything you needâŚ
(and what does cold devas have to do with a phys dmg thread 
)
1 Like
Force you to have to use a pistol instead of something else like a sceptor? I feel like I spelled that out already? Guy was also talking about devastation in post above mineâŚgees.
and i asked â
dafuq does it matter itâs a pistol âand not a sceptreâ; when it gives you everything you need to make the build in a single item??
âthatâs how items/several items workâ, you accept the slot its on , or try to do something else
and plot twist; in this case the forced slot isnât even bad, so again; what is the issue for the build??
For fun and having options in builds aside from always having to have the one item in the main hand slot.
Forcing builds into requiring a specific slot doesnt scream build variety to me.
And maybe I want to use other devotions that require a sceptor or DONT require a ranged weapon (like hydra)?
Not to mention the flavor of maybe I dont want to be a caster using a gun.
So multiple things really.
not an issue/a thing
why you ask; because wielding a pistol doesnât fn force you into hydra
and plot twist again; you have the other hand open for a caster offhand, and what do you know; the sole devo that has sceptre as requirement also has dagger and offhand; issue solved
tell that to all the other hundreds of builds with the same conversion/modifier features⌠âthis is how the game worksâ, you accept the slot or make other sacrifices - the main difference here is the slot/item isnât even bad/a big item blocking drawback
ah yes, the grand RP issue, the bane of builds, the destroyer of creativity, how unreasonable it is i canât do AAR with a big 2h stickâŚ
this is like the most non-issue complaint iâve seen in a while as if itâs someone that hasnât played grim dawn for more than 5hours not realizing how the game/itemization has worked throughout 
1 Like
not an issue/a thing
why you ask; because wielding a pistol doesnât fn force you into hydra
and plot twist again; you have the other hand open for a caster offhand, and what do you know; the sole devo that has sceptre as requirement also has dagger and offhand; issue solved
Incorrect if you want to use devastation as cold. Fair on the sceptor devotion but that also wasnt really the issue, getting locked in because you have to have one item of a type in order to do one type of damage is.
Okay I will: Forcing builds into requiring a specific slot doesnt scream build variety to me.
âThis is how its always been!â Said every office worker ever.
My point still stands.
Insert WanhWanh sound here. Incorrect just straight out.
read closer; the WanhWanh sound is coming from you, and the comparison is exactly valid/the same as you raise
and it is/was that way for a reason,
either you reject that reason or donât understand it; neither doesnât work the way the game works, because it has some certain things in mind, like balance and build decisions;
if everything was freely available choices stops mattering, which would in the end ruin build variety more because everything would be the same vanilla paste
Devs have even stated they might limit global conversion more in GD2 to not make every dmg type less unique by having it always be able to be everything else
Incorrect straight out again.
So in terms of the âreasonâ instead of wanting/encouraging build variety as purported its to discourage it instead. Thatâs hypocritical no?
I never said freely available at any point but having more options is niceâŚas well I reject the idea wholesale that it would make choices stop mattering as well it would not make every damage type not unique, those are all conflations towards an âapocalypticâ scenario that isnt even in the realm of what is being argued for.
â
^thatâs your big Wahnwahn sound 
(among the other ofc)
itâs not, itâs encouraging you to make calculated decisions for how when where you want it
if you want it âfreeâ you have to use this or that item, if you want it global; youâll have to look elsewhere
instead of just giving you multiple items, doing the exact same thing(yes thatâs literally what you want), thus reducing your build choices, and freely giving you what you want because you can just pick 1-2-3 other items doing the same; the conversion doesnât matter because itâs just widely available and youâve got cold devas vanilla paste
Buuuuut itâs notâŚincorrect straight out again. 3 for 3!
Well certainly not where lol as is the point of being locked into a single item in a specific single item slot.
Again, never said free, love the conflation though, really means you see and understand the other side of a debate. Also never said global. But having multiple items would be nice, I dont care if the conversion is an exact copy, thatâs not a bad thing at all and exactly what Iâd love. But also the other aspects of the items dont need to be the same as the original and I would hope that they werent.(So no, thatâs NOT literally what I wantâŚagain conflating things together on assumptions.) It also would not remove meaning (and thus still matters) to have a few options of the skill damage conversions for different slots (Note I didnt say all of them mr.conflation.) You would still have a limited number of choices, just not ONLY ONE.
except itâs not 
it doesnât, thatâs the point, it locks you in to this 1 item if you want everything for free; if you donât like/want that then you need to make other choices
thatâs the part youâre missing; by giving the player multiple items that does the same; it becomes free, because there is no choice/build decision to make, you can pick whatever you want because itâs not widely available - it might not be what you intended, but thatâs the outcome, you made it free
iâm not even addressing the other item stats so thatâs completely meaningless when thsi is purely about conversion; and the conversion is the part you want free
yes, literally
â
no, youâre either mixing sht up or forgetting what you said/your original point, which is what iâve been dealing with throughout; the conversion
neither did i mr mixup
the problem with that is it no longer limits much of anything when you have multiple items providing the same, which then means less build choice to make; itâs freely available regardless, and in essence the item now doesnât matter
Incorrect straight out again, four for four, high score!
I guess if youâre just going to conflate and not actually read words thereâs no point in arguing with you, because you wonât be fair to any points or understand anyway. Again never said free.
lol nope, did not make it free and thatâs againâŚa conflation. I didnt say pick whatever you want and even said limit it to slot items just not to JUST ONE. There would still be choice and build decisions to make, as Iâve pointed out already. The outcome is not making it free, thatâs just incorrect (Five for five wow! are these stars?)
So youâre ignoring other things that makes an item an item? Gee I love apples with only a stem and seeds too?
Incorrect again, maybe you donât know what literally means? Still 6 fail stars! What a roll.
Nope and nope, youâre literally (used correctly here) just not understanding how conflating things together and towards a great negative assumption worksâŚ
Except it still does limit it just not as much. Itâs not black and white of one option vs everything or âfreeâ as you put it. Again, it doesnât give you less choices to make, hell if anything it gives you more choices and they are still meaningful. The item indeed still matters.
you can keep saying itâs incorrect 100x, doesnât make you any more right and me being correct; it was a wahn, and a big one, deal with it friendo
in fact itâs one of the more nonsenseâs wahn coming across âas i highlightedâ
again, iâm not conflating stuff, youâre failing to understand the basic point being spelled out; it might not be what you intend but itâs the result outcome, might be hard to understand âsince it wasnât what you wanted/meantâ but itâs what happens when you give conversions like that
except itâs now on multiple slots by virtue of realizing your request, your sole counter to that could be âmove it to sceptre and strip it from pistolâ; then it would not be on multiple slots, but as you wanted it in addition, then yes itâs now on multiple slots, and you made it freely available
those other things on the items have 0 relations to
devastaion
your request/suggestion/wahn
this debate
so yes, for these purposes iâm 100% just gonna deal with the conversion, which you seem to keep missing is the basic and also vital point about âbeing freely availableâ
again, iâm not conflating anything; youâre mixing sht up because youâre apparently not realizing the singular thing iâve been dealing with, so 0 conflation on my part, perhaps a bit on yours then
not in this case no
you just provided free conversion as a result, you can freely pick multiple items for Cold devas, you reduced build choice, and can now freely choose the best everytime - this is what happens in practice (and has already been an issue before for skills/conversion)
Turns outâŚit does! Incorrect again â lucky number 7 count! You get another WanhWanhâŚ
Im not failing to understand anything, I disagree with your assumed outcome and reject the âneeded limitation of one item having that specific skill conversionââŚyou are refusing to see that about me. Yes, you have conflatedâŚalot, as I have correctly pointed out. You canât see that because you believe you are perfect in every way and that couldnt possibly be true! /s the last sentence.
This is your only fair point and more just a difference in where the conversation has traveled to. Actually in the instance of transfering/copying it to a sceptor, it would still be in the same slot yes but would then give more leeway to devotion choice instead which is also a good thing (Note again, I said leewayâŚnot free or choosing anything, but it could also allow cold devastation to be possibly used with melee only devotions. So similiar to the âmultipleâ slot options but not the same and would still be a good thing. And like no duh I want it in addition to? Kinda what iâve been argueing for is not just one item with the specific skill damage conversionâŚ
Except they absolutely relate. You canât just remove the other parts of an item in a discussion about build variety. Particularly when youâre arguing that other items with the conversion would just be the âsameâ copy and paste item. Thatâs just ignoring part of the equation and makes the end reasoning plain incorrect. Itâs also a way of trying to artificially hamstring who youâre debating with. Sorry but itâs not the vital point you think it is and thatâs why Iâm saying youâre conflating about my argument making things âfreely available.â Hell a good comparison is âWhat makes that car that car?â and you go âWell if we talk about it without the right long side of the car, its exactly the same as if we took a different model of car and put the same engine in it.â No, no itâs not, Tire type, size, drive shaft, features, gas tank size, and much more make it a different car.
You are, see above.
Yes in this case, thatâs inarguable because 2 choices is more than one choice. You say freely like youâve yet to give it any meaning but you havenât, having 2 or 3 item choices does not reduce build choice it in fact increases it. And the BEST build will ALWAYS be the best buildâŚthatâs how iteration and testing generally work and humans are particularly good at finding the most optimal ways of doing things, that doesnt even factor into this equationâŚbecause there will always be a best build for everythingâŚin fact if anything forcing the best build for something by forcing a singular item choice for it is exactly how you REDUCE choices. Having suboptimal options is fine and good and part of what im argueing for for build variation. Having a limitation of more than 1 but less than 4 is still giving meaning to choosing items and is not the free open range you seem to think it is. You can increase build choice and variety and still be able to make it NOT a build anything for it to work scenarioâŚstill having to make choices.
not how things work Mr Wahn
but then youâre assuming there is something to disagree on?
also not the case, which is possibly part of your issue
no, or did you already forget the initial reply/when i highlighted your incorrect take on devos?
sceptre does not allow this; now you would have to move your goalpost of initial take/request (which youâre free to do, but you see whatâs happening there, youâre trying to alter the circumstances to fit your narrative, while still missing a key part)
still doesnât change anything iâve addressed or pointed out; you just refuse to accept it/acknowledge the outcome/interaction actually happening as a result
which again youâre free to do, but just like the RP wahn; doesnât make you correct
they do not
try to follow; you donât need to factor in or consider PB mods nor Canister mods, because they have 0 relation to a Cold devas oriented build, and only related to a cold pb+devas build or cold canister+devas build
since we donât have to factor those in specifically for a cold devas oriented build but only hybrid build; all we have to deal with is conversion because thatâs all that matters to obtain the goal of cold devas
So all thatâs important in terms of item replacement âfor cold devasâ is then if the conversion is freely available elsewhere, whether or not the item has additional skill support would only matter for Devas+X builds, and then weâre back to you reduce choices because now you still just get to freely pick whatâs best since if you donât care about the PB/Canister mods youâre free to choose the other item if itâs better
where as if you were making a cold Nado build you might have to make concessions or build choices depending on what you want in your weapon slot for cold devas vs cold nado etc; youâre forced to make build choices depending on what you want most
the more you spread the conversion out the less you have to consider those tradeoffs/build decisions or regarding to global conversion route
not, youâre either just not understanding what iâm saying/pointing out, or mixing it up with unrelated things that has 0 bearings on a cold devas purpose
itâs not just 2 choices; but you expanded the free conversion so now there is even more
not always/or perhaps maybe not the way you assume
not what iâm saying; iâm saying you get to make the best pick for your cold devas; regardless of other considerations, where as when the choice is limited, youâll have to decide and make tradeoffs as to which parts of the build you want best, and how you want it best.
With free conversion on multiple items and less tradeoffs necessary you just made cold devas âalways bestâ on multiple combos without needing to do the same tradeoffs to make it happen.
Keep in mind iâm not saying itâs creating fewer builds, but less diversity via less build choices having to be made and âbestâ being freely more the option,
youâre just slapping best devas on because the tradeoffs doesnât need to be considered as much now.
thatâs the point, it doesnât, it allows you to freely slap cold devas on to more builds, without necessarily being the best; because you chose to make a tradeoff to get them.
Easy example would be Spellbinder, Level 100 (GD 1.2.0.5) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator this is neither the best for Cold Devas, nor the best for Cold RE; but iâm making a tradeoff to get halfsies, and a specific one at that.
With your inclusion that tradeoff decision would now be lessened, and even if the sceptre didnât support necro or RE or anything else in the build, it would lessen the tradeoff by allowing to chose the de-facto best support for Cold Devas out of the 4 options.
thatâs part of my point; we already currently have more than 1 option
so youâre just adding to that existing pool, and reducing choices/tradeoffs thus âalways using the bestâ because we donât have to make those choices/tradeoffs anymore
Conduits or conversion sets kinda shows this very well, unless the conduit has a huge penalty (chaos TSS); it always becomes the main choice for conversion, even if other options technically exists. Even if a set might require 4 slots blocked it will still be used even if the conversion also exists elsewhere, Fire forcewave being another cheeky easy example highlighting that.
Conversion shifting between sets/medals/caster offhand not creating diversity, because you just slap âallâ of them on at the same time and didnât have individual variety - and thatâs even for some slots of potential less significance as an important weapon slot choice
Turns outâŚit does!
Because there is.
He said while discussing the limitation of a single needed item for cold devestation.
My take wasnât incorrect and congratulations on once more ignoring words and their meanings.
Sceptre is a melee weapon isnt it because it certainly doesnt count for ranged? And I havenât moved my goalposts at all, but thanks for conflating to that conclusion. I havenât missed any point and im not the one in this argument making a ânarrativeâ Try actually looking in the mirror?
Except my other points and you knowâŚwords the things you arent actually taking internally have and do make me correct. But nice WanhWanh there againâŚyou must hear that sound alot in your life.
WanhWanh.
Take your own advice and try to follow: Other affixes and prefixes on an item absolutely relate and do matter when you are comparing itemsâŚthats like a basic thing of the entire arpg genre. No shit a canister mod doesnt matter but percent resists do, offense ability bonuses, those all matter to making an item unique as well. I honestly didnt bother reading all of this inane paragraph as you CLEARLY havent read, under or got the point and are going off on worthless explanations while ignoring everything else.
Youâre the one clearly not understanding what IM saying or pointing out. Im not mixing up anything. But again, you are, see above.
On a specific skill, for a specific damage type, to a specific item slot and that makes it free? Yeah, no the answer is no it doesnt, that just doesnt track. Nothing is free about it youâre still choosing/having to use specific item slots you just have a few more choices in it.
In the specific way im talking about, it does.
Thatâs not correct particularly if you do the same thing to every not cold skill specific damage conversion. Having more items do that same conversion does not make those the âBESTâ always devotions, in fact they would still have to pick CERTAIN devotion paths anyway depending on what item slots the conversion is STILL limited to.
But in your example it doesnt matter? If you are specifically going for halfsies with a cold devestation skill, you wouldnt go for the better anyway? You are specifically going for halfsies? I dont see how that limits choices or excessively free them up? Like you are already making the choice to go for a half and half build instead of full cold (or mostly cold)? You would still be going for the evening out anyway and not get the Best Cold Deva?
I disagree with that point that there is more than one option, youâre still getting locked into an item and slot.
This again goes back to what I said about the best options thoughâŚthere will always be one. This is just limiting other options particularly suboptimal ones? If you have more options for that skill and damage conversion either one of those new options becomes the best or the other one stays the bestâŚthat never changes, no matter what you do there will always be a âbestâ option. Restricting or artifically forcing a best option reduces your choices. I dont agree that what you describe as âwould happenâ is any different from right now. Youâre just limiting the path options in both devas and items greatly. It doesnt make the choices matter more because your just limiting it to one choice for one build anyway for it to be the best, when that would happen anyway, currently itâs just artificially enforced. The choice in the above example was a choice of what damages you wanted to do and whether it was going to be the most optimized or not. Which wouldnt change with more than one specific skill damage converting items. That choice would still be that choice just with more suboptimal options allowed.
nope, keep being wrong all you want in imaginary land
assuming itâs opinion not fact 
another assumption
it was both incorrect, nor was stuff ignored
â
â
there is 0 âmeleeâ required devos that would fit into your sceptre narrative, sry
so youâre either moving the goalpost again or failing to understand what devos sceptre enablesâŚ
see above, yes, either youâre moving the goalpost, or failing to realize what sceptre devos meansâŚ
you have no points, there is nothing valid youâve said thatâs either in relation to devos; or dispelling my game assertionsâŚ
no, and this frigus/the conversion mod also have 0 relations to affixes(unsure youâre mixing sht up again or conflating things/mods/affixes or shifting to something unrelated specific to again fit your narrative)
these are all inconsequential in relation to conversion priority âyou would know this if you knew remotely anything you were referring to, assuming or talking aboutââŚ
when you want a conversion build; first step is conversion, OA and resist(dafuq does resist even have to do with weapon slot thatâs like the most tertiary consequences) comes after, and rarely do they even come 2nd.
has been evident from the start
i know iâm longwinded, i know i repeat a lot; but i do so because youâre clearly missing basic stuff, and stuff thatâs already been highlighted, addressed and re-explained
it becomes free; when you can now freely choose without the previous tradeoffs, yes you made it free
in the very specific way youâve mentioned; no it doesnât
no, not how it works, your devo choice is not dependant on the skill conversion (when weâre talking the same conversion here, it would only matter if it converted to different dmg types; but you want same), and as already explained the gun doesnât limit nor force your devo choice; nor would your sceptre change that to anything positive/different (other than cutting hydra option out - less choice, again)
iâm going halfsies because i chose to not make either the best, but still get a cheap cold devas; i didnât have to use the gun to get cold devas, but it still sacrifices RE on the build, just like the RE/Omen items sacrifices the Devas, this is a tradeoff i chose to make instead of going global conversion or no cold devas/pure Cold RE(which would be better than half RE)
i could go more cold devas focus instead of RE, or vice versa, but the gun allows me a 1 slot âgimpedâ version of both, with your suggestion it would be less gimped âif the sceptre was betterâ; making the build choice even less
no, it was purely a choice made on easily getting âeverythingâ; with the acceptance nothing would be optimized from it, thatâs the tradeoff made
a tradeoff could have made differently not using the gun, or having as much RE/omen focus
it does if you donât grant free direct conversion, which it is in your example (and yes i 100% get you donât see that or donât know how to see that, but it does)
perhaps the easiest way to illustrate is âremoval of redundant conversionsâ; when there are too many conversions(direct not global) what has happened is some conversions get straight up removed, or shifted elsewhere, to attempt to break up the mono BiS item meta or simply deemed unnecessary/âunusedâ; because with your example thatâs always what happens, it doesntâ lead to more diversity because it just reduces the choices needing to be made, when the direct conversion is the same.
this is why you dontâ see the variety on multiple direct conversion items existing already, and the biggest source of meme builds has been conduits or global conversions where the options are different or broader, and other direct conversion mods gets classed as redundant+changed/removed at worstâŚ
it just doesntâ do what you think in practice
Tell that to yourself really.
Well it certainly wasnt a fact.
Nope and yeah there was. Please realize that.
Thatâs correct, sceptre was a random example of a different item type, I have never moved the goalposts. But you know your bad faith and allâŚ
Incorrect, go back and read and internalize otherwise you are just arguing in bad faith. I have had alot of valid points and dispelled alot of your assertions in fact.
Except it does as has been pointed outâŚrepeatedly.
They are not inconsequential in fact, âyou would know this if you knew remotely anything you were referring to, assuming or talking aboutâ back at ya.
I mean thats literally part of the point that im making, you HAVE to do conversion first and end up on one single item which sucksâŚbut reading isnt your strong suitâŚI know.
He said not quoting the rest of the statement without any hint of irony. Just lol. No Iâm not missing basic stuff, you should realize youâre not god thanks.
Incorrect again, go back and read.
It does.
Except it at minimum partially is. And no? Frigilus converts to cold from Aether and Fire thats not the same unless the temperature of freezing and boiling have suddenly reversed. Man you really got stuck on that scepter huh?
Which makes this example entirely pointless. Youâd still make that same choice anyway because you targeted those damage types specificallyâŚits like im talking to a wall and not even one thatâs brightly colored.
Youâd be gimped on both anyway going for halfsiesâŚwhich wouldnt reduce your choices at allâŚagain
Which having other tradeoff options is a good thing. But in either case again, you are choosing the split damage typesâŚwhich wouldnt change with another item having that conversion.
Oh look that word you keep trying to eroniously apply. Sorry, not free, get over it.
A. Why would having unused items be a bad thing? That already happens I guarantee it.
B. I doubt they were fully unused or someone could make a build with them.
C. Again, artificially locking the best to one specific item and build does reduce build diversity by making only one viable path. If there were more conversion items for specific skills with specific damage conversions then that increases the choices you CAN make. Though they may not be the most efficient is irrelevant. It still gives more build options and variety. It doesnt reduce the choices it increases them and they still matter just as much because they will still determine how far you can get in end game or how fast etc.
It does do what I think in practice, but for some reason you think thats a bad thing. Having a different item in a different item slot that does the same specific skill conversion shouldnt be classed as redundant and even if it is less used it shouldnt be removed or stifled because it provides a different option for a different path.
But I think Ill be done with this, you refuse to listen, give any ground, and refuse to see both valid points and logic. And I do know this isnt the focus for the PTR anyway I just was stating my feelings on the single item limitation in relation to a mention of devastation damages.
sigh
past build trends and patches conversion updates would suggest it is
you mentioned sceptre (repeatedly), changing it after the fact is indeed moving the goalpost
yes, you would know - iâm addressing your remarks, not altering them as they come to better get shoehorned in, try dealing with that
not a single one, as my very first post even mentioned
not a single one, atleast not in a real manner; because youâre proclaiming stuff âas if you knowâ, when you donât⌠which have been shown in multiple examples, conversion mentions, devos, past game instances - me repeatedly dealing with your specific conversion desire and you trying to toss in completely unrelated and 300% irrelevant mentions (resist/oa v conversion priority) - as if youâre totally ignoring what a build actually is/does X while trying to claim itâs Z, when that couldnât be further from reality
it does not; and if you remotely think so, in any sincere manner; then you have less experience or know less of builds/building than is valid for the argument going onâŚ
i know, which is why iâm not just saying it as an opinion; but stating it as a matter of fact; conversion is priority one for a conversion build
you donât, as i have mentioned several times now, even without your magical preferential sceptre we already have more than 1 option for conversion of Devas, unsure how you keep missing that fact
^and neither of those would factor in âsecondâ to OA/resist consideration for similar non frigus cold devas build
you very clearly are
very much know that, nor did i remotely proclaim or even hint that, mixing sht up again Mr
you can say incorrect as many times in imaginary land as you wish, doesnât change the effect in the real world, while i get you donât understand that, i struggle to see how you fail to grasp that very simple reality
see above
no, devos are free with Frigus, youâre not forced into Hydra, youâre no more forced into a devo as you would with Sceptre(yes iâm sticking with your OG sceptre mention, your own fault)
yes it converts devas aether and fire to cold âthis is whatâs needed to do cold devasâ
this is completely irrelevant to devos, unless you donât know how devos work; when the debate is cold devas and you similarly would want cold devas on a different weapon/sceptre - it does not change your cold route or overall cold devo potential even slightly, nor would your sceptre change the cold route
^do let me know if you need devo mechanics or cold devo routes basics since it seems like you might not be aware
free, get over it, i know you dontâ understand it, doesntâ change it
already happens; yep, and in my personal opinion itâs sad and wastes items, and as mentions; limit your build diversity because youâre deliberately screwing yourself over using them, and just end up shifting what is used even more âbecause something was even more objectively better by comparisonâ
someone did make builds with them; and some of them were sad when those conversions got changed or removed - yours truly included
youâre only artificially locking yourself in in 1 scenario, theoretical BiS; and youâre not changing that by adding another, youâre just shifting it at best.
What there should be is more global conversion options for certain dmg types, with potential more direct skill support(+dmg/+projectiles/+âeffectsâ), this enables multiple cross builds to mix match
but as mentioned, when you have direct conversion on a direct item it always ends up locking you in to the optimal of the versions existing; reducing your build choice
no, and as mentioned past precedent shows that to the contrary - heck existing itemization still does that for some skills
coulda shoulda woulda, itâs all nice in theory but it doesnât matter in effect⌠Direct conversion is just that powerful/desired it always goes that wayâŚ
and yet thatâs the reality what have happened several times in the past⌠âbecause we donât like unused items and want stuff to be used/have meaningâ
on this topic 100%, and i swear itâs not just because iâm a stubborn argumentative donkey, but because your initial 3?point assertion was just so fundamentally wrong/flawed and âcorrectableâ regardless of my usual predisposition to arguingâŚ
heck the RP mention alone should demonstrate the far fetched consideration/game impactâŚ
if there is any consolation to be had from this, it can be the slight glimmer of hope that (since Z saw this debate enough to move it), is;
mebe Z judges based on this passionate arguing that cold devas deserves more support/not just frigus support, or âto prove Gnomish wrongâ, adds the sceptre/melee weapon anyway (crossing fingers for 2hand melee meme devas? 
)