Comparison to PoE/ prospective player wondering.

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

Hello,

I recently stopped playing PoE for diverse reasons (time consuming, I don’t like the “difficulty”, that we can’t control everything and others I can’t really express in english).

I am still a huge fan of diablo like games and am thinking about starting playing grim dawn.

I am however wondering if that game has the same “flaws” I met in PoE.

Do we have to grind and grind and grind again for leveling up late game and get enough ressources for crafting? Is there a trade system between players?

Do things feel balanced? I basically rage quitted PoE over a buggy late game boss that felt everything but balanced and fun (this was the first character I was confident could kill said boss, and after hours and hours of grinding, failing over things I can’t control was so disappointing it enraged me for some reason) (Shaper, if you read this, do deepthroat a cactus and choke on it). In addition to the grinding that is boring to me…

I read that the loots were specific. Does that mean that we get actual loot we can use?

Are there any players of both games that give me there feelings and thoughts on the differences between the two games?

I would really appreciate it !

Thanks for reading me and for any input.

2

Grim Dawn is a single player focused game, where the grind and hunt for loot is an integral part of the journey. MP is only there if someone hoast a game.

Some items are farmable, meaning that they drop from certain monsters and they can be useful at least for stepping-stone builds. Those items are called Monster Infrequents, MI for short.

You also have faction shops where you can buy decent gear for the same purpose, getting your char a bit stronger so it can farm for better gear more effectively.

There is a trade system here on the forum, you post what you need and what you offer and someone will perhaps add you on steam friends or discord and meet you in a game.

Yes it feels very balanced, but there are still many things that can one-shot you if you do not play carefully.

PoE is more focused on end-game content, with the maps and stuff. Grim Dawn is more focused on optimizing your build and making more. Grim Dawn has the most diverse build system on the ARPG market.

Also, you no “season resets” where you have to find group of players to rush with, and take vacation from your job. And, there are no screen clearing meme builds, man I do hate that. Grim Dawn you play by your rules, at your pace.

3

Grim Dawn has a way more generous drop rate than PoE for loot, and is less competitive. if you’re an experienced ARPG player, you’ll probably be able to kill every boss in the game (then you have the Crucible and the upcoming Shattered Realm to test your build limits but it’s optional). ofc you’ll have to farm for it but it’s more accessible than in PoE, especially if you trade.

4

It is more SP oriented with very high drop rates, especially end game. Rogue dungeons for example gave guaranteed shops.

There is a crafting system as well and in FG you get Transmog as well since completing sets is the only real issue in GD as far as loot goes

5

It is single player and there are many mods available to tweak the game as you like. This is a great thing about Grim dawn as the player can make more choices to enhance their enjoyment, many more than they can in PoE. If you don’t like farming for gear then you don’t have to grind at all using mods/tools.

There are also in-game options to tweak grinding. There is an xp boosting potion that can be gotten after elite plus a bounty or two, but using it will mean you will hit 100 well before clearing all side quest and bosses so it’s up to the player choice.

As for difficulty it is entirely up to you. If a person researches this forum extensively and/or simply selects a good build to follow then the difficulty will feel easy (a lot of time can go into designing builds, up to you if you want to design your own or not). If you prefer self-discovery or only allow game guide or in-game info then to the average player the difficulty is just right. Note the main campaign difficulty is balanced toward new players that won’t have amazing gear, for more well geared characters the challenges are nemesis boss, super boss and gladiator crucible.

As long as you make choices to maximise your enjoyment my bet is you will thoroughly enjoy the game.

6

Do we have to grind and grind and grind again for leveling up late game and get enough ressources for crafting?

For leveling? No.
You can easily reach level 100 in the main campaign + expansion.
The only things you will be grinding for is faction reputation and more loot, but in my book that is how a diablo-like ARPG should be.

Do things feel balanced?

That is a bit subjective, but mostly I think the game is very well balanced.
The developers also listen to community feedback to tweak the balance even more.
You’re probably going to be able to kill every boss on a well built character.
This doesn’t apply to all nemeses, some builds can facetank one and have huge issues with another.
There are also some secret bosses that are a big challenge to any build.
Even in their case I would say the balance is fair however.

I read that the loots were specific. Does that mean that we get actual loot we can use?

What you probably read is that in multiplayer you have the option for each player to get their own loot.
You’re definitely not going to drop specific gear for your character all the time.
That said, the loot drops are very generous and while leveling you’ll mostly find items suited to your needs.

Is there a trade system between players?

Because Grim Dawn is a single player game by nature, you don’t have something like trade chat, trade tabs or poe.trade.
Trading is usually organized outside of the game.
There is a trade community though, and once you get used to the ways you can do it, it really isn’t very hard.

Here’s a guide :smiley:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77219

7

Welcome to the forum. :slight_smile:

You read wrong. Loot drops are governed purely by RNG (Random Number Generator) so you’ll find yoursefl getting a lot of gear that isn’t of use to your current character.

8

Got a long break so I’ll write this up. Hope it helps.

ENDGAME.

GD revolves around build diversity rather than never-ending grind to improve your favorite character. Most advanced players have the number of fully leveled characters in 2 digits. This is probably the most characteristic feature of GD.

MP.

In GD MP is a feature rather then the soul of the game. PvE is fun and especially good for beginners who struggle with the content and farming. Trading community is quite vibrant and with just a little effort readind ads and talking to people you can easily acquire any item is the game except very rare greens with specific affixes and purple MIs with very low drop chance.

LOOT AND GRIND.

GD features a total RNG loot system with a relatively large number of affixes meaning that, outside certain items, it’s not very “specific”. There are two tiers of affixes: magic (yellow) and rare (green). And then there are two tiers of unique items where stats are constant (no affixes): epic (blue) and legendary (purple). The range of rolls on stats is quite wide.

Almost every beginner complains about the loot. The proportions between yellow and green affixes and then between regular and unique loot are quite prohibitive for beginning players. But once you are able to efficiently farm, those complaints you made in the past begin to seem infantile. Besides, trading community helps a lot with gearing. Strictly self-found game is considered to be somewhat hardcore at the beginning stages.

However, GD is free from the plague of microtransactions meaning the developers don’t feel compelled to artificially restrict loot in order to encourage players to spend more money. I say that it is for this very reason that GD wins against its aRPG competition when it comes to loot.

Crafting and component farming has been greatly improved since the first versions of the game. You do have to farm for certain components but it does not feel like a chore. Especially once you expand your inventory and actively trade with beginners - then there is hardly any need to farm anymore.

As for EXP, this is never a grind. You can comfortably reach max lvl just by following the story. Leveling devotion EXP when you change your setup late in the game might require some grinding but it’s not something many people complain about.

BALANCE.

Environment in GD is very well balanced to provide sufficient level of challenge for beginners. However, many advanced players complain about main game being too easy.

There are no buggy enemies that make you pull your hair. Once you have mastered the game mechanics no enemies pose much of a threat for most builds. There is an exception of optional Celestial superbosses who usually require some preparation but regular bosses and nemeses (faction bosses) are conquerable by any well made build as long as you know what you’re doing. In GD when you die it’s 100% your fault.

GD fails, however, when it comes to the balance between different classes and builds. Some classes, concepts and even damage types are visibly superior to others. But it’s not a PvP game with so imo it’s not such a big deal.

9

Also Crate expects characters to be “finished” and not be continuously gaining more levels by grinding. The max level you can get is L100 and no matter how much more you play that character you won’t gain another level. With the Forgotten Gods expansion which is coming soon there will be an endless dungeon for those people who like that sort of thing, but again no level increase. There will be 3-4 more skill points available from quests in FG, but that’s going to be it.

10

Grim Dawn is the best Arpg of all time !
PoE is a clunky game… nothing more to say.
Without joking I was on the early alpha phase of poe and since then nothing really changed the whole engine is shit behind PoE.
PoE represents the garbage of microtransactions one of the first games with such a model. I really dislike “for free” games. If you want to farm in a efficient way in PoE you NEED extra tabs for your stash and so on. The industry behind those microtransactions are so stupid that i wont support such games.

Grim Dawn is the diamond of arpgs and a old school story telling and handcrafted game (the price of grim dawn is so low for a in my eyes tripple AAA title)

11

Grind’s still there, inevitable in this genre.

The major difference with PoE is there are no forced progression walls, designed to get bypassed by either trading or 24/7 grind.

GD loot system is superior to PoE, in terms of both item quantity and quality.
Drops are likely useful and eventual potential upgrades, rather than vendor trash 99% of the time. Items may have way more interesting and build defining/enabling affixes, altogether with transmuters.
Game allows and encourages deterministic (targeted) farming, of which so called Monster Infreqents (MIs) is the most interesting part, altogether with certain components.
Basically speaking, GD mostly revolves around items, rather than skill tree when building up a character - you may have completely different builds with identical skill choices.

There’s no actual need for trading, but you still can.

Crafting options in GD are somehow limited.

GD is more balanced compared to PoE, in every ingame aspect. Also more polished, with care of the detail.
At one hand, developers are way more experienced. On the other, they can also afford to balance the game the right way (the way they want and feel like) - many of PoE balancing issues and questionable design decisions come out of its F2P business model.
Developers actually read feedback and use to act accordingly, no spreadsheet balancing.

Mind that GD is a single player moddable game, with player interaction and trading options set to minimum.
It’s also non-competitive.
Gameplay is way slower, no power leveling the way you know it.
There’s also no late game in terms of what you’ve got used to, as a PoE player.
I’m saying this, being well informed about profiles of both player bases.

On a side note, you obviously intuitively and subcounsciously created a PoE related thread straight up in the bug section.

12

I play both.

New league poe and then await expansion for grim dawn.

POE is the King of aprg atm.
Its difficult and has so much content to do and you can play the game so many ways.
Grim dawn cater a different crowd and does so well.

I usually play with a friend so Multiplayer is my usual approach with one or two others.

13

This dude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIt8UTFgxas&t=75s
has a series of video where he compares GrimDawn to Diablo 2.
Its a very good series that will give you a good picture of what kind of game GD is.

14

hey that is me xD

I also talk about PoE and Diablo 3 now and then too

15

There’s also this one from a D3 player.

16

Eh… I play(ed) them both and really enjoyed myself in both… even spent more than I care to recall on POE supporter packs. However, in the end, I found myself enjoying GD for longer periods of time, because I’d constantly run into the -need 30-40 exalted to upgrade my gear- wall in POE due to the rampant inflation of items, especially those for builds highlighted by popular streamers. This just killed the overall fun for me.

GD has its flaws, and you will be frustrated when you can’t get that last piece to complete your set, but there are ways around it – you can break down unneeded gear and “gamble” for random legendaries at one of the “special” vendors. You can farm crucible for a greatly increased legendary:time invested rate. With the new FG expansion, there’s reportedly a vendor that exchanges set pieces for a random piece of that set (in the event you get 2 chest pieces and need shoulders, for example).

Yes, both games will have their share of frustrating grinds, but at least in GD you play the build you want while doing that grind. You don’t have to play from 1-85, praying for that 1 specific item, that lets you swap over to the build you really want to play – and that was the kicker for me.

17

Others have already described clearly how GD is compared to POE, and I just want to elaborate on the trading.

The trading is actually very convenient if you do it through discord. Usually you can find the item you want 1 day after you have posted your request; at least that’s the case for me. And with the new transmutation system in the coming expansion, it would be even easier to obtain the set items you are missing.

18

Here are my personal comparison points:

  • [li]Builds. [/li]GD builds are more around specific items. Character skill respecs are significantly easier/cheaper in GD.
    PoE builds are more about the skill tree/skill gems.
    Both games are [ultimately] numbers games and have elements of spread-sheet building.
    [li]Trading. [/li]GD trading is a personal restriction like any other mod; it’s a fully moddable SP game and there is little consistency.
    PoE trade is a mostly-essential part of the game (3rd party tools tools fill this role completely).
    [li] Item drops and quest rewards [RNG][/li]GD is much more generous with desirable equipment drops of enemies. However, many quest item rewards are 100% RNG from a limited pool of items and quest rewards often are not useful for the current character.
    Most PoE quest rewards are a choice from a limited number of choices and typically result in a more practical reward for the current character.
    [li]Cost. [/li]GD is full paid content with community [free] mod support; Cruciible dlc could almost be considered P2W, if item farming is the focus for the purchase. [Imho] AoM is almost a full game in itself and FG is likely to be similar.
    PoE is F2P but storage tabs are an ~essential QoL purchase; I have actually spent less on PoE than GD, even so. The extra cost is mostly visuals or developer support through various options.
    [li]Endgame. [/li]GD’s endgame is build-tweaking through equipment.
    PoE’s endgame is maps/trading
    [li]Difficutly curve. [/li]GD is easier to master; the eventual devotion paths are fairly consistent. Skills have breakpoints and practical limits.
    PoE’s tree and skill gem/support gem/item interactions are ultimately more complicated.
    [li]Multiplayer. [/li]GD is SP focus. MP GD play is currently seen as too easy for much of the community.
    PoE is MP focus (trading, competitons, daily missions, maps, carries). However, with increasing AoE-dps focus of the last few years, ~SP play is more common.
    [li]Mods. [/li]GD has a ton of fan-mods as part of the developer’s philosophy. PoE has none as it needs to be a controlled MP environment.
    [li]Tweaks and patches. [/li]GD patches are fairly consistent and timely. I suspect FG will be the last dlc and thus after a time patches will be solely community-based; the tools are released by GD, so this is not the end.
    PoE updates with each new league and tries to tweak broken stuff.
    [li]PC hardware.[/li]GD is far less demanding.
    [li] Broadband/wireless speed [/li]GD does not require a connection (except maybe Steam, MP, patches, and cloud saves). PoE is 100% and needs a decent speed.

I like both games.

19

Builds:
Can`t say for sure, all builds I played end up clearing screen in one button push on both in GD and PoE. PoE is more about abusing mechanic of the league, always was and probably never change. There is only one melee build in PoE - Flicker strike, but GGG make it harder and harder to assemble on SSF HC every league.

Trading.
I don’t bother with trading in ARPG.

Endgame.
There is no endgame in GD. PoE Endgame is 5k+ runs on burial chamber map. PoE midgame is a danmaku shooter with your favorite broken build of the league.

Difficulty curve.
My coffee cup can finish both games if I press LMB with it.

Multiplayer .
Not interested.

Mods .
GD has some essential QoL mods for autoloot and stuff. PoE has them too, but you will be banned if someone spot you using one of these :stuck_out_tongue:
Patches.
Every time GGG roll a patch someone make a fun video. My favorite was around flaskfinder league with that blade thingy, can`t find it T_T


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P1QinaBRZw well, these are reasonable.
Found it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TilVf_0jnSE :smiley:

20

Says the guy who avoids Grava, Aleks and Loxmere of all things in the main campaign. :rolleyes: