Unfortunately GD reached its end with both endgame modes being flawed and exploitable by certain archetypes.
Builds with high mobility and areal dot application will always have a big edge over the others. You can fix one problem like changing Octavius set. Then someone starts using The Grey Knight which also fits the purpose but will give some few seconds slower results.
You then can nerf phys, but there is Vanquisher. Nerf Vanquisher? There are multiple other possible builds in the game that can exploit SR with the same gameplay. You just need 1) stack enough global dot 2) have some support AoE like Doom, War Cry, Judgment, CT, hell maybe even cd DEE with Rotgheist 3) some tankiness
And you get another SR speedrunner.
I also overall agree that Octavius has too much going for this playstyle, and it can use some dot redistribution.
But i think you’ve raised more global problem: it is too easy to make a SR oriented farming build that not only invalidates all other playstyles for SR, it also completely invalidates farming in Crucible mode which is inherently friendly to a much bigger build variety.
How does that invalidate all other play styles for SR? Sure x build may be faster than y build for SR runs, but I’m guessing only a minority of people actually care about that because most builds can complete 75-76 within timer anyhow. Also keep in mind few people can run sub-5 SR, even with best case mutators/boss combos/map layouts and a top tier build. Most folks who play SR have dedicated SR farming builds that they are comfortable with and relatively good at farming with.
So it hardly invalidates any play styles. They’re all good, just different.
If we want to get into semantics, could easily nerf dots in the Shattered Realm, if that was somehow necessary, but I’m not sure some builds going sub 4 in the SR invalidates the Crucible, when most people aren’t going to be hitting sub 4 in the SR, just most people don’t hit sub 5 in the Crucible.
Crucible loot was also bumped up last update, not that the speedrunners are paying attention.
Invalidates for farming. You have builds you like and then you have builds for farming efficiency. Some builds will always be more efficient than others. But it’s a loot oriented game. When a certain playstyle nets 20-30% more loot per time spent than everything else it doesn’t feel good. That’s why balance exists, so that more builds preferred by different people were rewarding to play.
Dunno who you are referring to here. As for me, I payed attention. It’s a good bump but still wasn’t enough, if you factor in potential deaths and loss of buffs in Cruci. There is a small portion of builds that will net more loot from playing Crucible: stationary mortars/totems, huge aoe + low mobility Trozan and a few ranged builds. At least now this portion is not an empty set.
Honestly, this Octavius thing might have shaken some elite players a few years back when everyone was excited about Crucible records and their holders were considered the best builds in the game. But all that I see here is a confirmation that triple movement and dots works best in SR and that’s all there is to it. Great job with the record, though!
I like the build but there’s no two ways about it, the belt, the devotions, it’s made for speedrunning SR, just like the Rumetongue infiltrator that was made for CR. It’s not a balanced setup.
What’s more out of whack here, I think, is that the best physical nuke in the game seems to be Amatok’s Breath.
Also, and that’s something I’ve been saying a while ago. Build has PURE offensive devo choices with double offensive T3, every single gear choice and 99% skillpoint allocation choices are made for offense. Build sports 4k% dmg of its type, 30k tooltip wpn dmg with a 1h weapon, and is closing to 4k oa. It’s the fastest in its discipline. But it still has 30%+ phys res and 3k+ armor, cc res all great, no problems with any res, 16k hp, etc - just by the virtue of being physical. Looks to me like story mode compared to all the hoops some other classes/dmg types have to jump through to get even close to those defensive stats. For phys, they come for free, there’s zero offense that has to be sold for them. Seems not right. Especially when that offense is comparable and sometimes exceeding the more “glasscannony” dmg types. Pls correct me if I’m wrong with this line of thought.
Ok, fair point. I’m too casual to care about times, as long as timer is finished in time I’m a happy camper. But I see what you’re saying. Thx for reply.
Thanks for replies and sorry for being late. It was deep night in my time zone so I was sleeping.
Grey Knight is very likely to be weaker, when you don’t use FW.
Grey Knight doesn’t have any CDR
Grey Knight is of much lower res, so at least you should shift one Imposing to Immortal. That will also lower the damage.
There is no +1 to soldier on Grey knight.
Taking Grey knight instead will break the 3 piece bonus or 100% convertion, depending on what shoulder armor you choose.
So using Grey Knight will surely be slower, but I’m not sure how many seconds it will be.
Some builds, however, with bad mobility but much better AoE damage or longer range, performs better in CR rather than in SR. For example, bygone AAR (rip AAR). What is being urgent needed is figuring out an acceptable expectation for SR (though it’s a very very hard job).
Not sure if it is necessary because there are a lot of other DoT builds being much slower. However, we should indeed keep an eye on the DoT duration bonus, which is giving much more power than %damage in SR.
when it is along with tons of weapon/shield dot damage and 100% conversion.
I consider this phenomenon as the red and green devotion routes being weak at defense. Look at those blue and yellow and purple devotions, they offer offensive values and good defensive values at the same time. And phys just fits the route pretty good (retal too, but retal should be tankier considering its playstyle, shouldn’t it). I suggested giving some more defensive values to the red and green devotions before, but it was just not adopted.
Beronath peerless eye has great crit damage and good OA. If you want the same OA, you need an “of attack” on Kaisan Eye, and then you will only have an extra 110% damage, which I think is not as good as 12% crit damage in this case.
If you want more tankiness, you can also use Azrakaa’s Sands. It will be very very solid. The damage will go a little bit lower but the efficiency wont, because you have an extra 4% CDR and four pull will be much easier.
I don’t want the build to look too green, nor do I have a triple rare Kaisan Eye lol.
I think it’s only few particular cases of gear and affixes left. If you do this trick with almost any other phys build, it will fall apart.
The generic advantages of phys IMO are 1) Dire Bear devotion that gives decent sustain 2) armor values - flat and % - found in phys route 3) some shield affixes that give excess amounts of phys res.
Other than that phys devos and affixes in general seem fine. In phys devos there is a notable lack of speed and leech. Each balanced build has to invest quite a bit to cover these holes. In here a lot of holes are covered by anguish belt and it’s proc in SR is mitigated with smart play.
It only attacks three targets though, and it needs a target enemy as Uncle_Mac mentioned.
But yes Stormtitan has better solo damage, so I used it on those non-soldier Octavius builds.
IMO Seal of Might and cunning stacking should be included in that. Seal of Might is by far the best weapon component and more than makes up for rather shitty phys augments. And the oa from cunning can’t be compared to the energy from spirit that nobody needs.
I was watching this Octavius discussion and decided to try your Warlord spec. It is strong and fun (and fast in SR), but I thought it was missing some tankiness and some single target punch and it had too many buttons for my taste.
I don’t know if it can beat your guys record (even with fixed rooms there is still tonns of rng) but I think it’s definitely a more well-rounded build overall.
You said top “10” this time, so you think it deserves a top 11-20 place in your rank list? That’s nice! Anyway, let’s forget about the “top” thing and leave it alone.
Life leech stacking is good. It will definately raise it’s tankiness a lot. Personally I thought one more Restless Remains on gloves is enough, but the more LL the better. That’s fine.
AS is good for solo fight, so you have a little better Ravager score. That’s nice.
Trauma duration bouns is better than AS in farming SR imo, so I’m not sure if the one you post can have better SR score.
Also War Cry versus Shattering Smash. War Cry deals RR more quickly and more widely than SS, and DoT damage counts the corresponding resist only when it was dealt, so War Cry is also better in SR. With the high CDR of Octavius set, DR is not a serious problem imo.
I didn’t come to Doombringer before. That would be a nice idea. I’ll try it later.
Personally I would simply stack super-high trauma for as high SR farming efficiency as possible, but if you think your version being more well-rounded overall, that’s it. The best one is always the one that fits your taste best. Have fun!
Disagree. The best weapon component is Seal of Void. Might is a very strong pack of stats. But it’s not OP. Granted skill is not universally stronger than Resonance, a lot of ele builds would prefer the native dmg seal to cover cc res. Other seals provide very valuable dmg sources or leech so they can’t be compared. And the vast majority of lower ranked phys builds need that Might bonus so you’ll have to find other ways to nerf builds.
This is true, cunning is the best value of all attributes. But then again, by far the highest cunning stacking builds are pierce. And pierce is weaker than most dmg types.
I do think the set has to be represented there. In the end we didn’t have enough manpower to test everything in time. Lee’s caster Paladin came late in the testing and didn’t get proper spotlight. I’ve made RF + Kalastor Octavius after top20 which tanks Calla and has decent speed in SR and Cruci. As for Warlord we extensively tested Forcewave and Aegis for Octavius and only briefly a version with RF.
Regardless of what version one would prefer, the set deserves a spot in a list of best builds in the game right now.
