First congrats. You guys have made it sub 4 with fixed rooms. Wonderful!
Right. Nerfing based on one single speedrun doesn’t make sense. But this Octavius is not only fast in one specific speedrun. It’s always fast. Otherwise those series of sub 5 (and even sub 4:30) runs without any short room or room-fixed repeated tries can not be explained.
And I never called for nerfing Octavius. All I said was moving part of its global trauma onto mods to Aegis, to limit its abuse in SR.
This Octavius thing have both. It’s just because Chain of Anguish doesn’t fit CR’s fight style that this Octavius thing doesn’t make a super fast CR run.
I’ve shown its Ravager fight before. Not being the best but still very good. (81s facetank)
I also speedrun the fixed rooms again several times and it turned out 3:38. A few seconds faster could be achieved if i could have some easier bosses rather than Kaisan. So I think the ceiling on this map set is probably 3:25-3:30.
Also here is a higher SR fight. I did an SR 95 run and succeeded (with a few deaths). Also I tried SR 100 but failed fighting Gargaban. (succeeded in fighting Zantarin and Valdaran though)
Since I’m being tagged i’ll answer but i’ll start off by saying that i dont have a horse in this race and dont really care if Octavius gets nerfed or not.
Maybe the flat trauma on Octavius is too strong as you say, it certainly seems like the fastest SR 75-76 speedrunner atleast. I would have to try the build myself in all content to give an educated opinion, which i have no interest in doing.
I mean you were the one pushing for banana/us to go for a sub 4 run on fixed maps.
I dont consider Vanquisher that strong of a build but its well suited for speedrunning which shows the flaw in balancing based on SR or CR speedruns without looking at the performance in other content.
Anyway i have zero interest in discussing Octavius so now im out gl
Unfortunately GD reached its end with both endgame modes being flawed and exploitable by certain archetypes.
Builds with high mobility and areal dot application will always have a big edge over the others. You can fix one problem like changing Octavius set. Then someone starts using The Grey Knight which also fits the purpose but will give some few seconds slower results.
You then can nerf phys, but there is Vanquisher. Nerf Vanquisher? There are multiple other possible builds in the game that can exploit SR with the same gameplay. You just need 1) stack enough global dot 2) have some support AoE like Doom, War Cry, Judgment, CT, hell maybe even cd DEE with Rotgheist 3) some tankiness
And you get another SR speedrunner.
I also overall agree that Octavius has too much going for this playstyle, and it can use some dot redistribution.
But i think you’ve raised more global problem: it is too easy to make a SR oriented farming build that not only invalidates all other playstyles for SR, it also completely invalidates farming in Crucible mode which is inherently friendly to a much bigger build variety.
How does that invalidate all other play styles for SR? Sure x build may be faster than y build for SR runs, but I’m guessing only a minority of people actually care about that because most builds can complete 75-76 within timer anyhow. Also keep in mind few people can run sub-5 SR, even with best case mutators/boss combos/map layouts and a top tier build. Most folks who play SR have dedicated SR farming builds that they are comfortable with and relatively good at farming with.
So it hardly invalidates any play styles. They’re all good, just different.
If we want to get into semantics, could easily nerf dots in the Shattered Realm, if that was somehow necessary, but I’m not sure some builds going sub 4 in the SR invalidates the Crucible, when most people aren’t going to be hitting sub 4 in the SR, just most people don’t hit sub 5 in the Crucible.
Crucible loot was also bumped up last update, not that the speedrunners are paying attention.
Invalidates for farming. You have builds you like and then you have builds for farming efficiency. Some builds will always be more efficient than others. But it’s a loot oriented game. When a certain playstyle nets 20-30% more loot per time spent than everything else it doesn’t feel good. That’s why balance exists, so that more builds preferred by different people were rewarding to play.
Dunno who you are referring to here. As for me, I payed attention. It’s a good bump but still wasn’t enough, if you factor in potential deaths and loss of buffs in Cruci. There is a small portion of builds that will net more loot from playing Crucible: stationary mortars/totems, huge aoe + low mobility Trozan and a few ranged builds. At least now this portion is not an empty set.
Honestly, this Octavius thing might have shaken some elite players a few years back when everyone was excited about Crucible records and their holders were considered the best builds in the game. But all that I see here is a confirmation that triple movement and dots works best in SR and that’s all there is to it. Great job with the record, though!
I like the build but there’s no two ways about it, the belt, the devotions, it’s made for speedrunning SR, just like the Rumetongue infiltrator that was made for CR. It’s not a balanced setup.
What’s more out of whack here, I think, is that the best physical nuke in the game seems to be Amatok’s Breath.
Also, and that’s something I’ve been saying a while ago. Build has PURE offensive devo choices with double offensive T3, every single gear choice and 99% skillpoint allocation choices are made for offense. Build sports 4k% dmg of its type, 30k tooltip wpn dmg with a 1h weapon, and is closing to 4k oa. It’s the fastest in its discipline. But it still has 30%+ phys res and 3k+ armor, cc res all great, no problems with any res, 16k hp, etc - just by the virtue of being physical. Looks to me like story mode compared to all the hoops some other classes/dmg types have to jump through to get even close to those defensive stats. For phys, they come for free, there’s zero offense that has to be sold for them. Seems not right. Especially when that offense is comparable and sometimes exceeding the more “glasscannony” dmg types. Pls correct me if I’m wrong with this line of thought.
Thanks for replies and sorry for being late. It was deep night in my time zone so I was sleeping.
Grey Knight is very likely to be weaker, when you don’t use FW.
Grey Knight doesn’t have any CDR
Grey Knight is of much lower res, so at least you should shift one Imposing to Immortal. That will also lower the damage.
There is no +1 to soldier on Grey knight.
Taking Grey knight instead will break the 3 piece bonus or 100% convertion, depending on what shoulder armor you choose.
So using Grey Knight will surely be slower, but I’m not sure how many seconds it will be.
Some builds, however, with bad mobility but much better AoE damage or longer range, performs better in CR rather than in SR. For example, bygone AAR (rip AAR). What is being urgent needed is figuring out an acceptable expectation for SR (though it’s a very very hard job).
Not sure if it is necessary because there are a lot of other DoT builds being much slower. However, we should indeed keep an eye on the DoT duration bonus, which is giving much more power than %damage in SR.
when it is along with tons of weapon/shield dot damage and 100% conversion.
I consider this phenomenon as the red and green devotion routes being weak at defense. Look at those blue and yellow and purple devotions, they offer offensive values and good defensive values at the same time. And phys just fits the route pretty good (retal too, but retal should be tankier considering its playstyle, shouldn’t it). I suggested giving some more defensive values to the red and green devotions before, but it was just not adopted.
Beronath peerless eye has great crit damage and good OA. If you want the same OA, you need an “of attack” on Kaisan Eye, and then you will only have an extra 110% damage, which I think is not as good as 12% crit damage in this case.
If you want more tankiness, you can also use Azrakaa’s Sands. It will be very very solid. The damage will go a little bit lower but the efficiency wont, because you have an extra 4% CDR and four pull will be much easier.
I don’t want the build to look too green, nor do I have a triple rare Kaisan Eye lol.
I think it’s only few particular cases of gear and affixes left. If you do this trick with almost any other phys build, it will fall apart.
The generic advantages of phys IMO are 1) Dire Bear devotion that gives decent sustain 2) armor values - flat and % - found in phys route 3) some shield affixes that give excess amounts of phys res.
Other than that phys devos and affixes in general seem fine. In phys devos there is a notable lack of speed and leech. Each balanced build has to invest quite a bit to cover these holes. In here a lot of holes are covered by anguish belt and it’s proc in SR is mitigated with smart play.
IMO Seal of Might and cunning stacking should be included in that. Seal of Might is by far the best weapon component and more than makes up for rather shitty phys augments. And the oa from cunning can’t be compared to the energy from spirit that nobody needs.