V1.1.9.8 Discussion

This is simply wrong. They just follow you around.


Yeah, I think the assumption is the player is highly mobile and clear speed is fast. But if your just an average player with limited mobility skills, trying to ‘get away’ from them becomes a big problem quickly.


You called this “Casual”?
This is not casual. This is “slowed in purpose” or that you don’t know how to play it at all.
Amatok’s Breath is a perfect skill to fight crowds, but you don’t use it. The sky high trauma along with long duration can handle the bosses once they got 50% healthy, but you still fought them one by one till they died. And so does the doom relic and War Cry. You banned most techniques of the build and you claimed your run “pretty much sums it up”. How dare you?

Will you kill the enemies only one at a time and move to the next enemy only after the first one dies, when playing a bleeding trickster?

If you don’t know the playstyle, I would call it “don’t know how to play it at all”. If you’ve already known the playstyle before, then it’s definately a “slowed in purpose”, which is madly dishonest.

I can also perform 1000 “casual” 1 hour runs with your favorite top 20 and claim them being all trash.

The only persuasive way of proving your top 20 being better at SR is having runs faster than mine. I’ve guaranteed you with the “insane luck”. Go ahead and prove it.

BTW, here is another 4:16 run without any short room nor super good mutator set:

How will you explain these series of sub 5 or even sub 4:30? “Insane luck” again?
I can guarantee you this “insane luck” as well.

You sound more and more angry, how about you pipe it down?

He did play the build incorrectly. But he also died at 19:33 in bossroom vs Maiden with Magi bros support with pretty much no chance at survival. And he didn’t missplay it that much, he wasn’t even under Anguish proc, the Maul was active. Was he even affected by their strongest debuff? The muts were very mild as well. Based on this death alone i don’t really see how this build is 90% deathless runs, especially while speedrunning it.

Attacking a separate thread with entirely different benchmarks (not meant to speedrun SR) is just smth yours personal i don’t really understand nor do i want to. Let’s keep it civil and within topic.

I tried a few builds with high mobility. Avenger felt like it was more suited for SR speedrun, although it wasn’t built for it.

The ceiling for this fells like 4:10-15. It’s also absolutely more stable and easy to play than Octavius.

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This discussion is starting to get off-topic, guys. If you want to argue about SR timers and relative build performance, I’m not sure it belongs in this thread.

Points have been made about the Octavius set.


Nerfing based only on speedrunning doesn’t make sense imo. Mobility and dots will give the best results in SR while high damage and aoe will give fast CR timers. Strongest builds excel in all content, speedrunning, celestials, higher SR etc.

Thanks for the frozen SR rooms @anon94264551

(I don’t consider Vanquisher OP at all)


Can we get a Pet Freeze Res on a devotion, maybe Typhos? The reason being, we have so many pet stun and mind control resists in items and devotions but there are only a couple pet items (i saw personally) and one Rare Ring Affix as a source. Moosilauke near permanently freezes Briarthorns and Hellhounds which have 25% freeze res on their own and this is plus Throne devotion so a total of 47% freeze res on them ends up being more then 90% of the time, they are frozen. The difficulty between Moosilauke and other Bosses are simply insane with pets.


This is true in theory but not necessarily in practice. Quite often you’re offered two viable paths to take on a map and then you find out one’s chock full of Enchanted Armor heroes who Vire’s Might after you and heal everything. Those are next to impossible to shake once aggroed unless you run multiple mobility skills. Meanwhile the other path has Possessed Myrmidon heroes and an Arcane guy you won’t kill while the Myrmidons are around. You could charge through them, drag them along with you until you shake them, but then you’re rushing headfirst into uncharted territory, with possible Nemeses in there while you’re pulling healers and an Arcane behind you. At that point it stops being about clearing strategy and turns into the game just giving us the finger.

The game presents a variety of challenges and speedbumps in SR, some fair, some less so. Riggs’ Associates can be an utter pain, but they’re very rare, if anything they add a surprise factor and variety rather than pure frustration. The issue with healer packs isn’t so much the fact that they happen, it’s the frequency. You’re lucky to get a set of 3 chunks in a row where you don’t have to just turn away from the path you’ve been clearing cause you’ve been blocked by an unkillable pack. And often you chose that path to clear because the other path has something you’d rather avoid, like a bunch of heroes surrounding a nemesis you don’t want to risk dying to, or a narrow entrance surrounded by traps. Odds being heavily stacked against us every now and then, why not. But mathematically unkillable packs (for certain builds at least) every few chunks is a bit much. Doesn’t help that pretty much all the healer heroes are humanoid so they tend to screw over not just a handful of builds but three whole damage types (well, four cause Elemental exists).



Plus some healer heros with ridiculous damage absorption buffs.

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I feel like there’s something missing for Defilers to use with the Rage of Agrivix set. As a Spellbinder or Sorcerer, Callidor’s Tempest is a clear choice for main damage skill, you can easily find fitting gear for that and get enough skill points to max it and then some. But as a Defiler I always ended up asking, what do I actually cast at the enemies?

My best attempt was with the Hex Launcher faction weapon and Drain Essence as main damage skill. Then you have a main spell that does at least OK damage and helps with survival, and the extra periodic damage from Vindictive Flame and Siphon Souls does some work. As a player closer to casual than hardcore, I could usually, but not always, beat SR50 with this on Ultimate.

Giving Hex Launcher an additional Aether modifier for VF, or something else Aether-related for Demolitionists, would be a great boost for this build. Something for Flashbang could be fun, throwing a Flashbang at someone is sort of like Hexing them, right? Totally fits the theme!

Energy regen or energy leech would also be of great help as Drain Essence is so energy hungry.

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To this day i don’t know how their damage absorption buff even works.

10 Second Skill Recharge
5 Second Duration
3043 Damage Absorption
35% Damage Absorption
+20% to All Damage

I look at this and assume they are still gonna get damaged, but apparently all this does is make them immune to damage for its duration. And that’s with me having 28% human damage and putting a 800k bleed DoT on them, but their health bar is not moving one bit. I don’t see 100% damage absorption anywhere there.


Well, if the gear they spawned with boosts their resistance against your damage type to the stratosphere, you’re often gonna be doing less per hit than the 3043 flat absorb per hit they get, especially given the 35% absorption they get in addition to that. So yeah, they can become completely immune to your damage, or regenerate faster than you damage them, on top of being able to fullheal each other whatever damage you do get through.

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They had 0% bleed resistance in their gear in my example, but this always happens when they put up the shield regardless of the gear they have.

Try Conflagration (relic skill) instead of Drain Essence and max out Vindictive Flame, Ulzuins Wrath and Siphon Souls. Use Decree of Aldritch, Diviner’s Mask and M.Cord of Violent Decay to convert most of the elemental dmg to aether. This build is a bit slow in SR but can do 65-66 easily.

afaik there is only one item in the game that has modifiers for Flashbang so +1 to that :+1:

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Speaking of Flashbang, there’re a whoping 3 items in the game that provide Searing Light skill bonuses - and two of them don’t even have a mythical version, so basically only one item. And it’s not like it scales great, but let’s say one wants to build some gigatank character that revolves around fumble and dodging. Putting some points on a couple of items wouldn’t be a bad idea. To name a few: Coven Defender Seal, M. Darkflame Chestguard, M. Runic Bracers, Aleksander’s Legguards.


It makes them immune to DoTs (at least unless said DoT isnt ridiculously strong). “Normal” damage usually penetrates their shield like a paper.
Flat damage absorbtion just offers too high protection from DoT damage in this game. Something like 250 flat damage absorb from Ascention or Inquisitor Seal makes you nearly DoT-immune. Those enemies enjoy the same mechanics against your DoT build. Although their resists suck, their flat absorb value is also much higher (it’s 3k VS 250, dude).

My direct damage also wasn’t doing anything, so it’s not that.

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What we did in the league is make a new passive skill that added -8% max res to all resistance types to the following hero enemies:
So all of the above enemies can only ever have 92% resistances at most. They can still have overcap, which would “absorb” your RR first, but they will always at least take 8% of your damage no matter how low your RR and how crazy their gear is.

We also added the same passive to all human bosses like e.g. Cronley, Sister Crimson, Brother Segarius, etc.


More rigorously, immune to low DPH with high frequency. (for example rata part of Eye of Sethris)
So if your build doen’t have high enough DPH, they will be immune.
And even if you have higher enough DPH, they still absorb at least 35% of your damage.

I don’t mean to offend, but let’s take one of the top 20-Gutsmasher EoR WL as an example of lower DPH with high frequency. Regardless of the %WD, you have 3 physical parts from EoR. They are 24, 162-182, 138 converted from fire. And you have +3400% physical damage. Let’s assume that you reduced the enemies physical resist to -100% and armor to 750. Then before the absorption:

  1. the 24 part: 24 x 3500% x 200% - 750 x 77.5% = 1099
  2. the 162-182 part: 172 x 3500% x 200% - 750 x 77.5% = 11459
  3. the 138 part: 138 x 3500% x 200% - 750 x 77.5% = 9079
    Altogather: 21637

After the absorption:

  1. the 24 part: 1099 x 65% - 3043 < 0
  2. the 162-182 part: 11459 x 65% - 3043 = 4405
  3. the 138 part: 9079 x 65% - 3043 = 2858
    Altogather 7263.

See, the absorption indeed reduced its damage to one third!
And keep in mind that not all damage type has so high % dmg and RR benefit, so the absorption is very very much ridiculous in this case.
Only the highest flat damage along with super high %WD, %dmg and RR bonus can indeed penetrate their shield like a paper.

Can Ghol set please get increased duration to Devouring Swarm? DS has tiny duration (honestly i don’t know why it isn’t fixed at 5 seconds) at low levels and it really isn’t worth investing further for 0.2 duration increase. Build usually has about 3.4 sec of DS which results in quite clunky gameplay.

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