Custom Shadow Strike Spellbreaker Questions

Grim Dawn Classes, Skills and Builds
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1

Greetings everyone,

I’ve recently came back to Grim Dawn after a long hiatus. My crowning feat before that was besting Loghorrean on Ultimate hardcore before any expansions were released. So I’m now understandably lost while presented with all the changes brought on by the expansions.

I don’t really know if there is a pre-existing thread relevant to the subject that is still active. If there is, kindly link me to it as I haven’t managed to find it myself.

Here is a build which I’ve been tinkering with: Spellbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.1) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

Design choices for the build:
⦁ Core attacks are Shadow Strike and Ring of Steel
⦁ Fighting style is very ‘guerilla warfare’ and ‘hit and run oriented’.
⦁ Picked Typhoon for quick disengagements and to add more burst damage
⦁ Bloodthirster item skill for survivability derived from high burst damage
⦁ Chillspikes for a ‘poking’ ranged attack that is moderately spammable for kiting or pulling

Design flaws which I need advice with:
⦁ More appropriate item/gear set choices
⦁ Below standard stun resistance
⦁ Overall damage output vs survivability on Hardcore Ultimate
⦁ Constructive criticism on Devotion choices (Too many defensive devotions or not?)
⦁ Recommendations for better relics (if any)
⦁ Viability of cold-oriented hit and run, burst damage playstyle in the current meta
⦁ Possible ranged attack replacement for chillspikes
⦁ Potential energy problems that said character may have

I would also wish to add on that I’m not a crucible player and my aim is to conquer ultimate hardcore, so please keep that in mind with regards to gear choices and farming. I’d most likely pick a tankier character from the compendium for equipment farming, so recommendations on up to date farming routes (Except crucible) are nice to know.

Also, please clarify if I should or should not farm Nemesis Spawns using this build. Alternatively, some general pointers on surviving or evading Nemesis with hardcore characters would be appreciated as I’ve always struggled with them even during the base game.

Finally, thank you to anyone who has been reading thus far. I figured that it was best to lump all the questions I had in one post to minimize clutter, so my apologies if this felt like a wordy post.

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Welcome back! It’s always nice to have returning players back in the community~
I’m sure there has been much talk about cold spellbreakers over the years but alas I too don’t hunt down many threads as such when I browse the forums. There are much more experienced and knowledgeable players and forum members here that might be able to point us to one of those.
I do have experience with such a build and play style however so thought I would share some of my observations with you. I was just testing such a build last night in SR and it was performing vey well.
Obviously there are innumerable ways to assemble any specific build even if the chosen class and damage are the same. So the things that I will “advise” are just that. Nothing needs to be changed unless you want it to. Some will be just simple observations for you to consider.
Design Choices Observations
•core damage attacks: Seem underpowered to me. While it’s not imperative that the main damage attacks be hard capped because they are the main source of damage they should be doing as much damage as possible.
•hit & run plyastyle: Is completely viable because DoT damages excell in this regard and in this case ideal as frostburn can be stacked easily via both masteries!
•Typhoon: it’s good for an additional source of frostburn damage, independent sources of DoT are key to a DoT build doing well. Some player prefer the disengage and others prefer the charge. I use Amatok.
•bloodthirster: the build has idle life steal of 23% which is more than enough and above average specifically for this class. Bloodthirster is not helping in that regard and I feel the component would be better as coldstone for the additional damage.
•chillspikes: Fine and highly valuable, good choice!
Design Flaw Observations
•Gear choices: The gear you have chosen fits with what your goal is just fine. I will always reinforce a builders choice as I don’t feel that my personal playstyle and preferred gear choices will actually be beneficial to you even if there are objective stat improvements. I do and always recommend a build to be used as theory crafted first and then make changes to gear as flaws are noticed. The biggest issue for me now in it’s current state is the low physical resistance. To me that is the single most important stat in the game. And while some caster classes will always lack more of it than others there are items that both fit within a given builds design while also improving this most important stat.
•I wouldn’t worry at all about low stun res. My build that is very similar to this has a low value and while it can most certainly spell death to most builds it does well enough. I actually have less than you and you can even get 25-70% more with 2 smith bonuses (helm & medal) and a few component swaps.
•Not being a hardcore player I can’t say much in that regard but comparing your build directly to mine (something I don’t like to do but for demonstrational purposes)
your damage with procs active maxes at 3600 ~ 5400 x 2600% with frostburn at 3800 x 2300% + 122% duration.
Where as mine has 8500 ~ 10,000 x 2800% with frostburn at 5400 x 2800% + 150% duration
Of course damage is NEVER the most important part of a build but it is good to do as much as possible without creating problems elsewhere in the build.
As for survivability that is a different can of worms. I already mentioned the low physical resistance. That is a huge problem for survivability and in hardcore having it that low is extremely risky.
•Relic: the one you are using is fine for the desired purpose of the build. I use Nidalla’s Outbreak. There are others that would also be good for such a build like Iskandra’s Balance & eternity.
•The viability of the build in the current meta is fine. It’s by no means a physical retaliation warlord but that’s because it’s not. I never compare apples to oranges. For what you have designed it to do it will do well enough to meet your stated goals.
•ranged replacement for chillspike: none for this build chillspikes is ideal.
•energy issues: none that I see. If spamming chillspikes does create energy drain there are MANY easy fixes for that. But I don’t even see it being an issue in this case.
That is fine that you are not a crucible player there are many players that ONLY ever do the main campaign. Besides there are many other good way to farm gear than CR or SR. I would just farm the way you like. Your build as it is ONLY has 2 items that are target farmable and those are the rings. Other than that everything is a random drop.
As for farming/avoiding nemesis. I don’t see this having any trouble being able to kill nemesis. Obviously if you feel like avoiding them then it’s fine too. There are sometimes when you do come across on and engage on accident but with nightblade it’s extremely easy to evade them with the use of shadow strike.
One should never apologize for asking questions. It shows a clear effort to learn things that one isn’t sure of and or simply needs clarification on.
There are a few things I might point out that you did not bring up in your OP.
1: You’re a nightblade and that mastery has 1/4 of the single best sources of pyhysical resistance in the game. Dual Blades, which you are in fact doing as both hands are holding a weapon yet you put NO points into that skill. Obviously the use of Breath of Belgothian will allow you to DW but there is no physical resistance bonus for that. I would recommend dual blade to be at least softcapped for the 10% phys res. That is the single most important part that is lacking to the build and there it is. You can even get an additional 4% by taking it to your cap of 23/16 with the gear bonuses. 100% worth it to me if I were building this.
2: If you are DW it’s by far more beneficial to be an auto attacker than a caster. So the next logical step is to pickup execution WPS which is the main cold nightblade WPS skill. Thereby negating the need to use chillspikes as a spammable skill but more so for applying a frostburn DoT.
3: Unfortunately both your attack speed and cast speed are quite low so I would first decide if you are to be an auto attacker or a caster. Then try to get a bit more of the speed that you need to be as efficient as possible with your damage output.
My apologies if some of the observations seemed a bit obvious and the lack of any specific recommendations not to your liking. There are myriad of ways to build any character for any player and I feel that our own personal preferences make a HUGE impact on the way we each build and play those characters. I will eventually post the build that I’m referring to in my reply. I will post a quick clip of it in action as well after I record it in a bit.
Best of luck on the build!
:wink:

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First of all, a very big thank you for addressing the bulk of my queries and proving a very detailed feedback. I’ve been out of the game for a very long time, so I’m fine if you want to assume that I’m a newbie. I get that I have truly beaten the base game as a hardcore player once upon a time, but as it is today, I literally feel swamped by the changes so I’m literally asking for a schooling here :slight_smile:

DESIGN CHOICES OBSERVATIONS

CORE DAMGE ATTACKS- I’ll keep that in mind. Is there anyway that I can further increase the damage output? The reason why it looks underwhelming is because I purposely focused more on defense this time around, so naturally I trimmed a bit around my offensive skills.

TYPHOON- Is Amatok vastly better than Typhoon? If it is, I won’t hesitate to replace this if the new method is hit and run oriented as well.

BLOODTHIRSTER- This was really helpful in identifying redundancies which I was not aware of. Seems like I should have just gone for a coldstone if it was more efficient.

CHILLSPIKES- I must say, I really wasn’t expecting this to be a good choice. I’m glad to have your approval, but is there any ranged item skills that I might have been ignoring?

DESIGN FLAW OBSERVATIONS

GEAR CHOICES- Good to hear that. I was afraid that I was making a mess since I literally just went with whatever I remember from the base game. I have no knowledge about the new items from the expansions as of the present moment. So if you have any choice items, I’d be glad to read up on them if you would point them out.

RELIC- Nice recommendations. I would check those out.

ENERGY ISSUES- Just a minor question here- If I have energy (or perhaps health issues) how good are potions at remedying that aspect? If I recall, I have a ton of those just sitting in my stash.

NEMESIS- Noob question here: How does one disengage from a Nemesis in case things go south or if the aggro was unintentional? I must admit, in the base game, I did not max faction hostility. So that was how I handled Nemesis- I just didn’t give them a reason to exist. Period. But now that is pretty inevitable, so I do wonder how people tend to skirt around them.

POINTS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP:

  1. Duly noted on DW. I’ve been ignoring this since day one because the returns on investment looked very lackluster. And I probably know the answer, but just so that I don’t have any doubts- What’s the softcap for DW?

  2. hmm…I’m not an auto attacker though, since my attack cycle would look like: Shadow Strike > Ring Of Steel > Typhoon. And I’ll just repeat it. I do not plan to stay for even a second longer unless necessary, so would DW + Execution still help in this regards? He’s no caster either since I have nothing in OFF and TSS which is completely intentional. I’d say this character fights like a scoundrel/coward more than anything. Not the most flattering comparison, but I think it gets the point across.

  3. For me, Shadow Strike is pretty much the heart of my build. Basically hit the target/center mass of a mob fast, then disengage, reposition and repeat till dead. Anything too risky, I’d kite around with Chillspikes.So it benefits me greatly to get as much cooldown as I can on SS since I would not be wailing on any enemy up close if I can help it

Once again, thanks for the inputs and yes, please do share the build if you can :slight_smile: Also, is there anywhere else I can ask for build opinions? So far I only have the discord group.

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If you want hit-and-run spellbreaker focused on Shadow Strike and Ring of Steel, then I can suggest you something like Spellbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.1) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator . I tried to preserve as many of your gear and devotion choices as I could, but not that much remained.

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You’re welcome, I’m glad that you took it all in!
• core damage attacks: The easiest way to get more damage out of both of those attacks is to give them more skill points. As it stands ring of steel is only at 6/16 doing ONLY 300 cold damage with a single point invested but it can be 26/16 at hard cap. At least at soft cap you’re doing double the damage with that single attack. In this case your gear bonuses will get you all the way up to 23/16 doing almost triple the damage! As for shadow strike the final node nightfall can easy get the same treatment. It too is another vital source for frostburn & life steal. Spellbreaker is by default a very offensive class with neither mastery having much in the way of defensive skills. There are some but it’s a difficult balance to get enough of each for any specific build.
Other than the simple shifting of skill points there are many other ways to increase over all damage output of any build.
• Movement rune: Amatok for me is by far better as I despise the disengage runes. The biggest benefit to me for Amatok is that it will freeze a lot of targets and that combined with the heavy frostburn and freeze from ring of steel means that you could potentially permafreeze some targets.
• Bloodthirster: has a place and use and for this build I just see it being less effect as the other options.
• Chillspikes: unfortunately the ONLY other ranged cold component attack is the Ice Spike from chilled steel. A serious downgrade that is only for use in the first 10 levels of a characters life. There are of course a slew of cold damage ranged weapons (pistols & rifles) but then you are completely changing the core dynamic of the build so those are not an option.
• Gear Recommendations: I will forgo any specific item replacements now as each individual one will either A: Not contain a skill bonus for something you’re choosing specifically SS & RoS. & or B: lean the build in a different direction than the one you have chosen for this character.
• Relic: Yes, those are good in this case. Lastly a serenity could be of use too.
• Energy/Health: If you’re referring to resistance potions then yes, please use them. Health & energy potions are consumed constantly by a majority of players and builds as there is nothing that is immortal in game. I did also just notice upon double checking your resistances that acid/poison in not even at soft cap of 80%… 74% while close does mean that if you get a nasty RR applied to you could easily die from acid pool & or a poison attack. I might reevaluate those components & augments asap.
•Nemesis: If you target an enemy far enough away there are times when the nemesis will “loose” you. In the video I will be posting there are many examples of this happening. They will always be noted on the map with the icon so if you play with either map on and or are regularly checking the map window then you’ll most likely notice it well in advance. GrinInternals I think also has a warning for them too. Having never looked into that function I’m not certain about it but I’ve heard this from other users.
1: DW bonus: the softcap for DW is 16 which you could have with only 9 points. There are ONLY 2 other masteries in the game that can trade skill points for phys res. I will reiterate that for me it is the single most important defensive stat in the game and I would HAPPILY trade any amount of skill points for phys res.
2: Auto Attack/Caster: The recommendation to opt into auto attacking from casting was just a progression from DW. DW auto attacking & by extension execution would be specifically for bosses. Obviously they can’t be completely avoided as they need to be killed for quests etc… so rather than just running around them for 10 min you could just chop them up in 2 min.
:slight_smile:
“scoundrel” I think does suit it fine and there should be no shame in that name IF it gets the job done. I live by, the ends justify the means so any and every method should not just be used but abused to get the goal accomplished. I’m hoping that my insights to these other options might help you understand the many choices you have at your disposal.
3: OK, if in fact then SS is the “heart” of the build it should be hardcapped at each node. Otherwise you’re purposefully doing less damage than you should. If CDR is also that key then there are a quite a few options to reconsider as far as main-offhand & amulet go. As it stands your CDR is at a modest 11% and mine is at 16% with a maximum of around 30% possible we’re just barely half way there… Another reason I recommended the Eternity relic, which would effectively give you a “bonus” SS every 5 seconds.
I’m currently encoding the test video of my build in action so you can see how well it performs at these tasks, I’ll even include a few fails as well because even though it’s extremely powerful and very effective there are times when death is inevitable… hence I rarely play hardcore.
:frowning:
Here’s the first run with OK performance. Just a quick SR75-76 run with 11min finish on 75 & what would have been a 12 min finish on 76 but the Queen ruined it. Showing you how it performs against 2 of the worst bosses in SR.
Here’s the second run with better performance. Another quick SR75-76 run with a 13 min finish on 75 & a 13 min finish on 76 as well.
Here’s the third run with the best performance! Another quick SR 75-76 run with a 10 min finish on 75 (I like how I ignore Ben and allow the blade spirits & frostburn DoT to kill him) & a 15 min finish on 76. That was the goal of the build~ So happy I was able to capture it for you to see just how fast & powerful a frostburn hit n run Spellbreaker can be!
Finally a few failed runs on the way to 15 and an almost successful 15 min finish~ Got a bit cocky near Zantarin… bad idea!

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Your recommendations for the amulet, medal and Skill are perfect. I’ve been struggling with balancing the survivability aspect of the build and this gives me a lot more confidence.

Though, I wish to ask about Amarasta’s Blade Burst and Blade spirit. I’ve only really used ABB during the early levels before switching to RoS and I never used Blade Spirit before. How should I best utilize them with my current build?

Also regarding devotions, I take it that Amatok is a better pick for my playstyle. I’ve only ever tried Leviathan before and I thought it was fine. Is the Blizzard effect better than Whirlpool?

And one last thing- Elemental Storm and Tsunami are not bound. Which skills do you recommend me to bind these two under?

All in all, thank you for the recommendations. Really appreciate most of the selections :slight_smile:

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• core damage attacks: Very valuable input. Guess I’m on the right path if I keep trying to improve SS. For nightfall, I will do my best as well to improve it, but I’m actually not too bothered if I can’t increase it by a huge margin, since my character can deal out plenty of debuffs as it is with other skills.

• Movement rune: Yes, the poster above you recommended Amatok as well. So it seems that’s a double confirmation. Though it’s nice knowing that Typhoon isn’t my only reliable mode to disengage. Multiple options are always better on hardcore.

• Chillspikes: Funny thing was I started getting ideas from Ice Spike, but yes I can agree with you that it is the inferior choice and I never considered it past the halfway point of normal mode.

• Energy/Health: Very helpful for me to note. I take it that acid/poison got pretty frequent past the base game? Though I can believe that- The Sentinel from the hidden path nearly gave me a heart attack even back in the days.

•Nemesis: Good to know. At least they don’t just spring up in your face without warning. I was paranoid that might have happened.

DW bonus:- Noted on the resistance bonuses granted by the skill. Didn’t realize that earlier.

Auto Attack/Caster: Well…I’m pretty comfortable taking 10 minutes if I can’t drop something in 2 minutes. Logherrean was actually an endurance test which I couldn’t put down that fast even before, so I’m anticipating that future bosses won’t give me that luxury as well. As long as I feel like I’m reasonably in control of the battlefield that is ; There’s something wrong with my build if I’m barely holding on for 10 minutes.

Also, For the Shattered Realm vids, I’ll watch them when I get there since I’ve yet to experience that piece of content yet. I’m going to keep some of the surprises for myself in the future. But I take it that farming routes / Steps of Torment / Shattered Realm would be how I obtain my gear? Hopefully it won’t be that much harder than grinding out my old deathmarked set.

Thanks again for being attentive to my queries. If there’s anything to add, then I’m all ears. I’ve learned quite a bit from your replies :slight_smile:

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I took 1 point in ABB and spirits due to lack of devotion activators. Spirits are pseudo-pets similar to nemesis and are perfect for “on crit” activator, so use them for Ultos or Amatok. ABB use together with RoS cast. Murmur proc is self-expanding, so it is not very demanding to skill. Rhowan’s crown (elemental storm) is another resistance reduction skill and you need it to be activated as frequent as possible. With the above said, feel free to distribute the activators whatever you like.

Since one of skill choices is shadow strike and since you picked Tsunami, I went to Morgoneth’s set, because it is focused on SS and two of its pieces have lightning to cold conversion better utilizing Tsunami. By this reason I also preferred Ultos over Leviathan. Amatok was undisputed for me since its proc is proved to be the best devotion proc for cold builds (dealt damage is specified per one projectile). Murmur and Rhowan’s crown were undisputed as well (resistance reductions for cold). Since Morgoneth set also has bonuses to vitality, I decided to keep your choice to take twin fangs as well.

I would also support @desioner advice to change movement skill on medal to Amatok’s Breath.

Serenity relic was chosen to cover lack of resistances, also for health and reflected damage reduction (can be scary with our frostburn). The medal can be changed to green medal with good affixes: it is chosen for OA, resistances and bonus to elemental damage and deals nothing else.

One point in dual blades gives you 5% physical resistance for almost nothing. More significant investments would be too expensive (with the suggested gear) for potential gains.

An important note. Morgoneth set pieces are monster infrequents and drop in Tomb of Heretic only (roguelike dungeon of Forgotten Gods expansion pack). Look into grimtools for more details.

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Thanks for the detailed explanations. Blade Spirit looks like something that I’ve been ignoring until now. Looks good for damage output since I move a lot. And noted on the activators. I had experience with Elemental storm before and I quite enjoyed it.

I’m glad you provided that explanation for Amatok since I haven’t read anything positive about it until now. I’ll also consider changing the movement skill on the medal, since I have been cutting down quite a bit on damage this time around.

Is it particularly challenging to farm for Morgoneth Set though?

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If you don’t have a solid character, then yes, this can be a pain. You need around 30 successful runs or so to collect the set (roughly, according to my practice) and this roguelike dungeon can be very easy for one characters and very dangerous for others (and I am talking about solid builds). For lightning, aether and cold the boss can be challenging.

On the other hand, suggested axes, amulet and medal are craftable from blueprints that can be bought in faction shop. So, you can get them with 100% guarantee. Craft them with Malmouth smith to cap stun resist.

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Sounds good. I plan to pick a character from the compendium since I know that my main isn’t built to be durable.

Nice to know that the items other than the armor set can be craftable.

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Just a final tip to demonstrate gear flexibility: Spellbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.1) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

With the same build concept this variant deals less damage, but much tankier. So, accents are completely up to you. Enjoy.

1 Like
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Curious, what class is your “main”? There is NO class in game that can’t be built as a very strong and defensive character. Making farming anything anywhere in the game a breeze. Heck, even with this spellbreker at it’s completion should be able to as well.

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Actually I meant main as in this is my ‘favoured’ class combo build to play :slight_smile:

I tend to fixate on that one combination out of the many in any given rpg and do some minor theorycraft around it, while I usually leave the rest for the other players to figure out.

The reason is simply because I just like the theme of the character, so abilities and performance has nothing to do with it really.

Currently, I’m partial to a cabalist as well since I played nothing but the Necromancer in Diablo II, so I might have another build that I’ve just as interested in :slight_smile:

15

I see. Sure, we all have those play styles and classes that we just favor over all others. Thankfully some classes have a bit more variety in that they can do pets, caster, melee, & or ranged all just as well.
Luckily for you Cabalist is one of those lucky classes!
Best of luck on your adventures in Cairn~

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Valiance set is a really nice touch. I could surely use that as well if I happen to stumble upon those items.

How’s the performance for the Nemesis relic though? I read up on it in the past and heard that it wasn’t as good as it sounded, so I’m kind of curious how do summons in general work when there’s no pet bonuses.

17

While I haven’t gone deeply into it yet, I’m kind of just visualizing a vitality-decay focused cabalist with two ranged pistols.

The lifesteal which the Necromancer tree provides looks delicious and the Enemy Resistance Shredding skills in the Occultist tree just seemed really nice to work around with.

Not quite the same flavor as the bone-themed necromancer from a different game that I used to play as when I was younger but just as twisted so it really piqued my interest.

And why pistols? Because I always fancied ranged weapons. In fact, I would have used the northern Wyrn in place of the Chill Spikes for my Spellbreaker if switching weapon sets didn’t deactivate my passives.

So maybe I’ll try building around that concept with a necromancer if I do come around to that.

18

Nemesis is pseudo-pet, it receives the same damage bonuses as player. The relic is not very popular, because it is hard to convert whole base damage of nemesis to cold (without conversion the damage is not impressive) and except the pseudo-pet the relic suggests almost nothing. However, it is very helpful in cases when you need one more perfect “on crit” activator, which is exactly your case.

19

I see. Thanks for clarifying that, since I didn’t notice the synergy there.

20

Hey guys, I actually completed Hardcore Ultimate with a spellbreaker (story content only) so thanks a lot for your suggestions. It really did help me consider my options :slight_smile:

Nevertheless I was using a budget build with faction gear since I didn’t have a single high level legendary item to make a definite build. But now that the main campaign is over and with the highest level of items dropping for me, I kind of want to push my damage levels as high as it can get, so I came up with this:

I kind of decided to go out on my own and cobble together a custom loadout. Does it have any big problems that I should be concerned about?

Also, I didn’t put alkamos rings because I can’t really stand the grind at this point. It’s just more than tedious, so I’ve resorted to other rings.