Dealing with faction Nemesis on Hardcore Elite & beyond

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
1

I’ve been trying to find a discussion regarding the topic above, but it seems most of the contents were either about softcore mode or don’t go in-depth about the subject matter.

Basically, I have some genuine concerns about fighting Nemesis enemies when I only have a single life. I’m currently nearing the end of Veteren and I feel that Aetherial hostility is actually filling up alarmingly fast as I have just reached ‘hated’ status.

I’m currently trying to run an Elemental/Cold Spellbreaker with Shadow Strike and Ring of Steel as core skills. My character’s build is here: http://grimcalc.com/build/nFuXsfH

Thinking about finishing Vet at level 50 and then switching over to elite. I’ll play till I reach level 60-ish…then go back to veteran so I can grind faction reputation to revered using bounties without pissing off my enemies even more (I am aware that you stop gaining rep from enemies if you are 11 levels above them)

I could go on, but I don’t want a super long post, so are there any tips on how to manage hostility or tackle Nemesis spawns on Hardcore? Are there any Nemesis I should avoid (like Fabius, with his potential to end any toon is less than 3 seconds if he spawns with good weapons) on this game mode? Any tips or info is appreciated :slight_smile:

2

I’m curious about the same thing, just kind of bumping this with hope to hear from the experts. It astonishes me that people can play hardcore and face Nemesis and do crazy-risky things like try Crucible in gladiator mode.

I mean once you do that often enough then it becomes predictable and you can determine the risk or lack thereof (though for Crucible I’m not sure how anyone can evaluate risk really unless their character is afraid of nothing, since it varies wildly from one session to the next). Yet it’s specifically at the point you’re asking when their HC character had to face a Nemesis for the very first time that I’m wondering how they didn’t freak out and just exit the game session.

For Valdaran he’d be one of the least scary to me since you can just focus on tons of lightning resistance to mitigate a lot of the damage. Your health bar shouldn’t work its way towards zero in a single hit or two in that case (no shotgun, e.g.) and you should have some time to respond to the dips to your health bar and assess the amount of kiting (or lack thereof) necessary after playing it safe for a short while even though he might be teleporting you all over the place. Same kind of idea with Moosilauke and cold resist, he’s usually not going to put you at risk of ending your life before you even know it in that case.

Even for the above two though, if you encounter them around enemies that are debuffing you, I’d run, maybe exit the game and go to fetal position if I was playing HC.

For Zantarin, I’d want at least one really good circuit breaker (Mark of Divinity, e.g.) and lots and lots of vitality resist. There you can’t really expect to watch your health bar and know when to run without a circuit breaker kicking in – the shotgun blast can do so much damage in a mere instant. Can’t play it too safe with hardcore IMO.

Note that generally it does take a good amount of grinding to get to Nemesis rep – far longer than despised to hated. I didn’t get to Nemesis until towards the end of act 4 in ultimate for just aetherials and chtonics, and still far from it for Cronley’s.

As softcore I’m kind of lazy about things but if I was HC I’d try to memorize every single spawn location of all Nemesis factions and also use defensive pots whenever I see them near the edge of the screen until I get really confident that my build has no problem with them.

BTW, melee DW spellbreaker is ballsy as hell to me in HC.

3

It is ballsy but with circuit breakers aaaand Mirror 12/12 with belgothian relic and a bit of CD makes for a very interesting mechanic. You can have Mirror every 6 sconds.

Combine this with OFF, Circle of slaughter fumble and PB+haunted steel and Balck star then you can play quite relaxed. I tried this and I cannot remember using a potion with this combo…oh and blade barrier if you fail your timing in some way.

4

[QUOTE=OlerOnion;439862]

Yet it’s specifically at the point you’re asking when their HC character had to face a Nemesis for the very first time that I’m wondering how they didn’t freak out and just exit the game session.

Exactly. The most logical assumption would be that they have ran through the nemesis enemies so many times on Softcore that it doesn’t scare them. But for people like me with a tight schedule, I just don’t quite have the time to do that given how I messed up my Softcore character. Not to mention, my laptop kind of got wiped before this so yeah…I lack time to actually experiment.

For Valdaran he’d be one of the least scary to me since you can just focus on tons of lightning resistance to mitigate a lot of the damage.

Chtonian Nemesis was actually the easiest for my Spellbreaker especially on Elite, and that’s enough for legendary farming. I’m trying to find at least 1 or 2 more that is viable for me to farm safely.

Same kind of idea with Moosilauke and cold resist, he’s usually not going to put you at risk of ending your life before you even know it in that case.

Moosilauke was the Nemesis which ended my Ultimate Hardcore Devastation/cold spellbreaker in fact.

Even for the above two though, if you encounter them around enemies that are debuffing you, I’d run, maybe exit the game and go to fetal position if I was playing HC.

Except that I actually consider that kind of cheating. I might re-consider though given that I am NOT going to fight anymore Nemesis undergeared, and I will most likely gain a few Nemesis foes before I even hit level 80.

For Zantarin, I’d want at least one really good circuit breaker (Mark of Divinity, e.g.) and lots and lots of vitality resist. There you can’t really expect to watch your health bar and know when to run without a circuit breaker kicking in – the shotgun blast can do so much damage in a mere instant. Can’t play it too safe with hardcore IMO.

Hmm…good suggestion. I actually use double hollowed fang/haunted steel components for my dual-wield setup. The weapon skills synergize INSANELY well with shadow strike and ring of steel (25% lifesteal is pretty ghastly when my Shadow Strike is already doing minimum 7,000+ damage on Veteren). That and my auto-attacks can essentially allow me to face tank certain weaker enemies (such as Brianthorns or even Chtonian gorgers).

and still far from it for Cronley’s.

I’m NEVER going to allow Cronley’s to reach Nemesis. PERIOD. The guy kills even the most decked out character on 1 out of 5 softcore runs from what I can read online.

And yeah, my Spellbreaker is Ballsy with a capital B. If you have played the Mass Effect series as a Vanguard, it’s that class taken up way past eleven. Huge burst damage, but can easily become overwhelmed if I am not careful. He really just needs some ways to sustain for a bit when he is up close and personal, which is why I feel a bit of lifesteal is good.

5

Interesting…sadly, my build is focused on Elemental and Cold damage. But sure I’ll look into that Black Star item you mentioned.

Just throw any good item suggestions my way.

The plan for me is to really get up to 45% of my physical damage converted to cold and 20% converted to elemental damage. The remaining 35% will be converted to vitality damage (Hollowed fang/Haunted Steel component) or whatever other damage depending on items.

Just as long as it’s magic damage, I’ll benefit from anything that isn’t physical, bleed or piercing since every other modifier will outrank them thanks to Inner Focus (I’ll have 900 spirit once I have put points into IF and that’s pretty awesome).

6

For me the only nemesis I’ll ever try if I’m playing HC would be Moosy (with a hoarfrost ointment of course). RNG can be cruel in this game.

Valdaran can debuff your lightning resist to abysmal amounts and wreck you with stuns and crazy burst.

Cthonic nemesis is a pain in the arse to find.

Zantarin can shotgun if you are careless.

Iron maiden will chain stun you to oblivion.

Fabius will bleed you to death and if you SS to his blade barrier it’s gg.

7

For me the only nemesis I’ll ever try if I’m playing HC would be Moosy (with a hoarfrost ointment of course). RNG can be cruel in this game.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll try that.

Cthonic nemesis is a pain in the arse to find.

Groans…too bad, since I can actually take him down with a ranged weapon.

Valdaran can debuff your lightning resist to abysmal amounts and wreck you with stuns and crazy burst.

Zantarin can shotgun if you are careless.

Iron maiden will chain stun you to oblivion.

Fabius will bleed you to death and if you SS to his blade barrier it’s gg.

Pretty much…

How will ranged combat fare against these Nemesis enemies, since I actually use a rifle as my second weapon?

And I feel pretty retarded for suggesting this since I have no in depth knowledge of how ranged weapons work…but how about I dual wield pistols as a spellbreaker for these Nemesis?

It’s slower but come on…This is Hardcore Ultimate, I stopped caring about kill speed since I didn’t pick a Blademaster (And coincidentally, Blademasters get owned at least a few times trying to pick on these guys on softcore while farming.)

8

Here is my spellbreaker guide.

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47243

At below video section I explained about crucible and dangerous creature. Hope it can help you in HC and beyond that

I understand that no chance in failing at HC. So good luck :slight_smile:

9

Speaking of Zantarin, does he use vitality or life leech for his barrage? He ended my Challenger run in an INSTANT with 80% vitality res (Probably, I unspecced devotions and can’t remember the setup)

10

He uses a vitality barrage when you are at a certain distance from him. He never uses it when you are at melee range.

I find Valdaran to be the easiest Nemesis. Just overcap your lightning resist, drink a Stormshround potion and just go to town. Every single of my characters can kill him really easily, even on Ultimate. Of course, if your lightning resist is below 80%, well yeah, he will end your life real fast.

11

Thanks :slight_smile:

Also, that’s a lot of legendaries. Hopefully I’ll get some legendarie myself and trade for them in future :slight_smile:

12

I find Valdaran to be the easiest Nemesis. Just overcap your lightning resist, drink a Stormshround potion and just go to town. Every single of my characters can kill him really easily, even on Ultimate. Of course, if your lightning resist is below 80%, well yeah, he will end your life real fast.

Interesting…overcapping might be a problem though since i don’t recall my choice of items/devotions allowing for a raise in Lightning resist cap.

Would 80% be enough with the help of a Stormshround potion?

13

Valdaran can be deal with even 80 or 75+ Lightning resistance without using Stormshroud potion

If you’re new to him. you’d find it’s hard, but if you observe and kiting to learn his move. You’ll find he’s the easiest nemesis. Just max Lightning resistance(80%) and always get some “reduced stun duration” (40+ is ok). I died by him <10 times at beginning and never died again after I learn his move.

As long as I see his pattern. It’ll be like this (1->2->3 or 1->3->2 randomly)

  1. Swap you and himself.
  2. Blink near to you and about 0.5-1 sec later. He’ll shot lightning balll around(If you’re too near to him. You’d probably take more balls)
  3. Stun you by lightning bolt

Special : He sometimes shot 3 lightning balls. When he’s rage he’ll shot them rapidly.

You just careful only when you’re swapped. Then prepare for close up look of him. Then when he blink near you. Just walk/run away. You’d get only 1 lightning ball.
When he’s rage. You’d recognize and won’t died by 1-2 groups of lightning if you’re looking him carefully.

Try get those reduced stun duration. It’s necessary for most encounter and survival.

At least, the nemesis those have stun are [4 out of 6][ul]
[li]Valdaran(longest) - Aetherial[/li]
[li]The Iron Maiden(Medium) - Kymon’s Chosen[/li]
[li]Benn’Jar(Medium + have long time petrify) - Ch’thonian[/li]
[li]Fabius(Short) - Cronley’s Gang[/li]
[/ul]
Some bossses those have stun are [ul]
[li]Loghorean[/li]
[li]Shar’Zul[/li]
[li]The Sentinel[/li]
[li]The Warden [/li]
[/ul]
These are why have reduced stun duration is important thing.

14

Thanks, I’ll try to keep some of those items around.

I never needed them on ultimate to be honest (still 0% stun resist on Ult), but I think its a must for certain Nemesis heroes.

Anyways, maybe Aetherial, Cthonian and Undead Nemesis are the best for me. I’ll try not to fight the others.

15

I’ve read that Valadaran is using flat res debuffing, not % res debuffing, and thus will ignore any overcapped resistances.

16

Yes, but with an overcapped lighting resist plus around 30% or more, his debuff will never send your lighting resist below your current cap. He also only uses it when you are at distance, it’s the lighting bolt he drops on your head.

To me personally i find Benn’Jhar to be the most annoying for melee. His melee attacks hurt like hell even with high armor, 100% armor absorption and decent physical resist. Plus the stomp that stuns you and the fact he gets horny when he gets below 30% HP making him faster and take less damage.

17

But if his flat debuff is actually ignoring any overcaps, it will lower your lightning resist below your cap.

18

If you have an extra 30% resist, the debuff will remove those 30% because the debuff is by 30%. Meaning if you have 84% plus 30%, you will have 84% in the end. This is why Stormshroud potion is advised even when you have overcapped lighting resist.

The overcap has nothing to do with the debuff. It’s just advised to overcap it plus have an extra 30% or more to keep it at max.

19

When I say overcapping I don’t mean raising your regular cap (from 80% to something like 84%), but having additional resist over your current cap (for example by stormshroud potion).

From this thread I got the impression that such overcapping (with things like stormshroud) does not work against many enemies, including Valdaran:

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?p=435803

“It depends on the type of debuff. If it’s an absolute resistance reduction, it will ignore the overcapped resistances entirely. Some notable enemies that can do this are Valdaran, Sentinel, Anastaria and Shar’zul.
If a debuff has -% resistances as part of the skill, such as the resistance debuff from Chthonian harbingers, it will factor in the overcapped resistances. The only nemesis that I can think of with a skill like this is Zantarin.”

20

I got hit by his debuff when i had over 40% lightning resist, stormshroud potion and 84% resist and he wasn’t doing any extra damage while the debuff was on me.

It didn’t even show in the stats page that my resist went down. It was still 84%. When a Chtonian Harbinger or a Troll Shaman debuffs me, i can clearly see that my resists were lowered by looking at the stats page. When Anasteria debuffs you, it shows in the stats page.