Defiler Discussion

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Hello, I wanted to raise awareness to what I perceive is an issue regarding class combo identity with the Defiler (Necromancer/Demolitionist). This isn’t really a balance issue per se, as I believe they are certainly capable of developing strong builds that can handle game content. However, I believe based off what I’ve seen that any build a Defiler can attempt, another class combo can do the build better.

The 4 main damage types associated with Defiler are Fire, Lightning, Vitality, and Aether. There is also Physical, Pierce, and Cold damage in the masteries, but there is no mastery access to RR for those damage types and will therefore be inferior to other class combos. I’d like to break down each damage type, how a build can utilize it, and why a different class could do it better.

Fire

Fire caster builds are much better supported by Elementalists or Sorcerers due to more fire/burn support as well as CDR, RR, etc. Necromancer skills add nothing to fire and have no skill modifiers making them fire friendly. Fire Strike melee/range builds are better supported by Saboteur/Purifier/Commando/Pyromancer. Vitality to Fire conversion exists on 3 items which can help somewhat, but only one of those is a Defiler item and is a stronger benefit to Pyromancers than Defilers, because they have stronger Vitality skills. Aether to Fire only exists in 15% ring slots, not enough for a meaningful conversion.

Lightning

Similar to Fire, but with more clear winners being Elementalist/Sorcerer/Ritualist for casters/melee. The only Vitality to Lightning conversion is through the Elemental conversion of the word of Inquisitor abalon. There’s slightly more Aether to Lightning support, but it’s better on a Ritualist.

Vitality

There’s a bunch of Fire to Vitality conversion, but Apostates take the cake with the Decree of Malmouth being for them and extra Vitality RR. Not to mention Conjurer’s/Cabalists/Ritualists being the obvious candidates for Vitality casters. There’s some Fire --> Vitality for Fire Strike supported, but that would be better supported by Pyromancers.

Aether

Spellbinders and Apostates trump Defilers in pretty much every aspect here for casters. Better Drain Essence builds, more Aether RR or support, etc. For melee, the much greater ease of Chaos --> Aether conversion makes Spellbinders or Cabalists better choices.

Unfortunately I have to go right now, but I’ll add my potential thoughts for improvement later.

2

Well both classes have a lot of actives but not many passives, likewise defiler has no synergy in the damage, it might be the worst possible combination right now.

I guess adding some transmutes to both classes could solve this, especially necro, I believe it is the class with the worst synergy right now.

3

Here are some recommendations…

  1. More item skill modifiers for Demo skills that give either Aether damage or Aether conversion (50% for Fire and/or Lightning, or 100% for Physical and/or Pierce).
    This would be a good way to make the Demo class more competitive in the Aether department. Currently any build attempting to utilize the Elemental to Aether conversion present in gear benefits way more from Arcanist than Demo due to not only the gear, but how well the skills convert + the +% Aether bonuses in the class. All the Demo skills involve both a Fire/Lightning component and a Physical/Pierce component, so even if you’re converting Elemental to Aether you’re still not getting efficient conversion. Adding straight Aether damage or converting the Physical/Pierce would make it more competitive.

  2. At least 1-2 more gear slots and a few items with good Defiler skill bonuses and Vitality to Fire conversion.
    Blazeheart IMO is the best attempt at a Defiler item in the game. Fire damage is the thing Demo does best more than any other class. Going this route for the Defiler’s identity seems to make more sense IMO. Here’s how it would rack up to its competition…

Elementalist - Defiler loses to RR, but if more Vitality --> Fire were introduced it would beat Elementalist in sources of Fire/Burn damage.

Sorcerer - Again, Vitality --> Fire would give comparable if not stronger sources of Fire/Burn damage. Might need some good +% Fire/Burn to compensate for the support it gets from Reckless Power and/or Elemental Balance. Coincidentally, Aether --> Fire conversion items would benefit Sorcerers just as much if not more than Defilers, so that wouldn’t be a great option.

Saboteur - With dual Warpfires this class is very strong for Fire, but Defilers should hopefully be comparable with an equal amount/ease of Vitality --> Fire.

Purifier - Aura of Censure is pretty good Fire/Burn support, but otherwise doesn’t offer much unless going ranged.

Pyromancer - This class probably competes the most with Defiler in terms of identity with Vitality --> Fire conversion, but fortunately the class already seems to have co-opted Fire and Chaos as its main identity gear-wise. This leaves room for more focus on Fire as a niche for Defiler.