It’s a complicated question and there are many factors involved. Sales are definitely one of them and if FG sales end up blowing our minds, a third expansion might be tempting, but we also have to consider things like how old the game is and its user retention, team burnout and where we are with other projects at the time.
So, in summary, the magic 8-ball says “why are you asking me, I’m an 8-ball”.
To me, personally, the game’s age doesn’t mean anything at all. I still play old, “shitty” graphically games even today. People will look at Divine Divinity, a game from 2002 and say “Holy fuck this game looks bad I’m not gonna play it”, and I still do play this game, even today. My all time favorite games are only the old games. Even Grim Dawn, despite me wasting tons of hours in it (well actually only 437, but I don’t really have much time to play) is not as good as other games I’ve played in the past. I can see me playing GD for even more hours, years, but I kind of doubt I’ll break my record of playing one single game, which is over 4000 hours in Cultures (I’d even say it’s way, way, way more than that, since I’ve been playing this game almost non-stop when I was 9, stopped playing the game for a while when I was around 13, and then came back for another ~300 hours, then again a break and again, never came back to it for less than 200 hours). So I estimate I could waste around 4000 - 7000 hours in Cultures, hopefuly Grim Dawn will be almost the same. 
I kind of doubt people will come and say “oh the game’s old, not gonna play it, it’ll probably suck”. Grim Dawn will probably be good for the next couple of years and people will not even look at the age of it. Even now people still come back to Titan Quest, buy the expansion etc. I wouldn’t be taking that on account if I were you, since you do a great job developing this game and really show the players that you care about it.
Zantai is just objective about it since he has the data and gamedev experience, and we/you are being subjective here. I mean ok, we can all say that it doesn’t matter that the game is getting old, but we are the highly biased group of diehard fans, and even if everyone says they would buy an xpak3 how many of us here? About 1000?
I believe that burnout is a real and strong factor here. To be honest All Crate team have my full respect that you all are still able to fight it.
As positive as your outlook is, that’s really not how sales numbers turn out in practice. 
I certainly expect GD to have a long tail on sales, but expansions do have significant diminishing returns, particularly for singleplayer experiences.
TQ: Ragnarok did coincide with a spike in TQ players, but not a very large one considering how many copies of TQ were sold over the years. Did the expansion pay for itself? I imagine it probably did? But difficult to say if Nordic’s investment in the TQ franchise has paid off so far. Maybe if they develop a TQ2 and it does well, then their long-term gains will be positive.
I feel the same way you do, but more that just liking old games, I’m starting to hate new games these days. Everything is a live service or full of micro-transactions or just half-assed. D3 was so awful, even without the auction house (though I never got that far). Ark, last I played, had the worst building mechanics…It’s shocking. PUBG is so buggy and barely made true on their vault mechanics promise. The graphics still suck. Battlefront 2 was a cash grab fail (boycotted). Destiny 2 apparently sucks too. Well not for the first two weeks but after that my friend says there’s nothing to do.
All in all I’m glad I have a quality game like Grim Dawn. Best game purchase yet.
I hope and pray GD2 is one of those other projects
I get what you mean, but that’s not what I was trying to say. I know that it’s not worth to make new addons/expansions for few players that play this game. It’s the same as they’d make a new expansion for Divine Divinity and only like 10 people would play it because they enjoyed the game in early days, back in 2002 - 2005 when the game was fairly new.
My point was, that game’s don’t really get old, they do get “outscaled” by other games. For example, Titan Quest is more or less the first version of Grim Dawn, it was good and people love it and still play it, but most players that liked TQ moved to GD because it’s an upgraded TQ. People still play TQ because, even though it’s not a new game, it’s also not old because graphics are still okay-ish and gameplay is amazing. I hope I make sense, lol.
The heavy vitality+bleeding set shown on the stream desperately needs Shaman bonuses. Not sure why Soldier is even there in the first place, vit+bleeding+melee screams Shaman.
Melee Ritualists have great synergy between classes but lack gear support.
Hope this set will receive some tweaks to support more classes during playtesting.
You mean like the Valguur Set it already has?
I didn’t even know how old Grim Dawn was until as of late. When my brother bought me this game in 2016 I thought it was a newer ARPG hitting Steam. Like a few mentioning their wants for a third expansion, I’m with them on this. Nothing better than taking characters you’ve spent hours building scaling even further up in levels and powers inside their next new adventure/threat.
That’s why I enjoyed the crap out of World of Warcraft for so long. The longevity of your adventure.
Here’s hoping Forgotten God’s does well and the developers aren’t burnt out. I know they’ve invested hundreds of hours building this great game, but so have I and I’m not ready to see it stop here.
Zantai appreciate the answer - i do consider indeed that Crate`s team is getting burn out since you worked on the game all those years along.
Maybe guide us what can be done to motivate you? What sacrifice you would need to get empowered and get us xp3 
While definitely your developer experience is more objective than us the players, i can say from my POV GD looks fantastic visually - its very detailed, gfx are great (doom bolt fx needs changes though) - the world Lives and Breaths! It is miles better in terms of quality vs 99% modern day competitive products.
I do hope you guys keep on being “niche” and keep doing what you do best.
Also any possibility instead XP3 for a smaller Lore DLCs? Like Ulgrim`s storyline conclussion or PC vs Aetherial Council of Five final showdown
Valguur is a caster set though. And even then it has support for 3 masteries, so quite flexible.
I get that melee fits Soldier, but both Vitality and Bleeding are damage types you need A LOT of RR to play with, because there are large groups of enemies with crasy resists. And, unlike Occultist or Shaman, Soldier does not have that strong RR options.
Anyway, I hope I’ll be proven wrong about this set.
Any thoughts on a stream this week? (hoping to wake up in time this time)
You can never step into the same one twice?
Any love this week? I missed the last stream and couldn’t find any time to watch the vod, so I gave up on it and I am stream hungry now. Also, it’s nice to have a dose of Crate after a hard day of work.
Well, it’s still available if you want to watch it after a hard day at work. I watched it yesterday.
I know it’s still available, but watching it live is still better than a vod. Also, a stream would provide more information about the future features in the game.
Yeah, I agree live is best, but being able to go back over the vid helps to make sure I didn’t miss anything. There’s always so much chat going on it’s sometimes difficult to keep up with the questions/answers and trying to go back in the chat and check isn’t easy when it’s being updated all the time with more comments.
We have had streams every couple of weeks lately so hopefully that’s a good sign for another one this week. But I guess it really depends on how busy the devs are since Zantai said the 1.0.6.0 patch was going into testing pretty soon after the last stream.
I was pleased to see we’re actually going to be able to go up those stairs in Ugdenbog at last.
Hooray! I’m pleased too. Will this be soon?
