DoT and Standard damage types: Why?

So why exactly do DoT and Standard damage types (e.g. Frostburn and Cold) share a resist but not a damage bonus modifier? (Weirdos like Pierce and Bleed notwithstanding)

I’ve never understood why this is the case and why DoTs are separated from Standard damage types at all in the first place - given how some skills (like Mark of Aetherfire) make Aether “DoTs” by having them tick Aether damage repeatedly, why do we need Frostburn when we could just tick Cold (in tiny amounts, really really fast perhaps)? Is this a relic of the TQ engine? Could it be changed or is it hardcoded? If it’s a relic of the TQ engine why was it implemented in the first place (I didn’t get to play TQ so bear with me here, I’m sure there’s a reason that’s obvious to a TQ player)?

I mean, Titan Quest’s damage boost was kind of retarded. The most bonus damage you could get was (iirc) 60%, and it also had no separation if we talk about DoTs. The problem was, not many items gave enough damage to be able to focus on that (you still could focus on damage only, having no defense because items didn’t really provide defense stats if they already gave damage). There was also no damage tab, you could not check how much damage you deal and what damage type you’re already best at (still had DPS stat, though). I don’t know how it is in Anniversary edition, I just played it for around 2 hours because I was showing it to a friend and saw some massive changes in the interface, but still no damage tab.

In my opinion, separating e.g. Frostburn and Cold is a good idea, because you may choose between those two, if you want to deal DoT or burst (flat) damage. Some items give Elemental damage, which are all three elements together, and, if they also gave DoTs (some items do), you could build a Elemental damage character (let’s say caster) and deal massive amounts of burst and DoT Elemental damage, which against some monsters could be really powerful since they’re resistant to Cold, but have 0 resist vs. Fire and Lightning. Look at it this way, the monster that has 82% Cold resist and 0 Fire and Lightning is damaged by a 2k Elemental damage and DoT damage character, let’s say you hit it for 2k each element (6k total burst and 6k total DoT) and before that you shred the resists by 50%. Now, the enemy has 32% Cold resist, -50% Fire and Lightning which results to 1360 Cold and Frostburn damage and 3000 Fire and Lightning and Burn and Electrocute damage. Now, instead of having the damage increased slightly, you basically annihilate everything. Not to mention that before this you hit for 8720, now you hit for 14720 (DoTs are counted), while normally you’d deal half of that due to having no DoTs. If you had only one element, you’d either deal massive damage (general, DoT + burst) or just slightly lower damage (due to resists that got reduced).

Bear in mind also that you can increase the damage by basically doing nothing, while Chaos and Aether damage have no DoT damage, but as a compensation, many items give huge boosts to that damage while granting very good defense stats. Not to mention that you can get random Aether damage boost from Necromancer and Arcanist, and Chaos damage from Occultist and Arcanist, while they also don’t have many resist shred sources. You can easily get around 80% Elemental shred by only masteries and devotions, while if you want Aether or Chaos resist, you gotta literally seek for them everywhere and you still don’t have enough (fun fact: Aether is the only damage type that ACTUALLY struggles with resist shred, since only Necromancer has 33% aether resist reduction at rank 10 of his Spectral Wrath, there is also a ring that reduces aether resist, Chaos is easier to get if you play a certain build). I’ve managed to get a maximum of 90 Aether shred (-x , -x%) and 32% (x reduced resist) on my Death Knight, while I struggle to get more than 86% on my Spellbinder, while I can make Elemental builds (mostly one element) that shred the resists by at least 80%. I managed to reach -132 (iirc) Chaos resist reduction with a crossbow build.

I kind of got off-topic, but I secured some of questions, I guess. :stuck_out_tongue:

DoTs like Burn or Electrocute exist in Grim Dawn because DoT damage behaves differently to direct damage, significantly differently. Even if you were to have direct damage tick like Wendigo’s Mark, this behaves in a different way compared to if it was Vitality Decay.

Off the top of my head, key differences between the two are:

  • DoT damage has % increased duration. No way to increase Wendigo Mark’s duration besides reapplying it.
  • DoT damage can stack together.
  • DoT damage cannot trigger ADCtH/life steal.
  • DoT damage checks for a crit at the beginning of an application and crits for each tick if so.
  • Dot damage checks for an enemies resistance at the beginning of an application and will deal damage according to that initial resistance, even if it were to change before the application ends.

Might be others that I’m not aware of but those are the main ones. Despite how small they are, they mean DoT builds are designed fairly differently to direct damage builds placing more of an emphasis on coalescing different sources together and stacking OA/% crit damage for big ticks with less emphasis on defense (because they can kite).

Maybe we could have had “Fire damage over x seconds” behave like Burn but having Durational Fire damage and Direct Fire damage as an example sounds like it would complicate things if they were designed to act differently.

Ah, ok. I think I understand better now. I’m guessing they couldn’t really do a duration modifier without separating standard from DoT.

Was ADCTH not triggering on DoT damage deliberate choice? It seems like that would actually be a neat way to create “vampiric regeneration”, but I could see it becoming really imbalanced with a strong DoT and lots of ADCTH as well.

Can’t say, Life Leech used to exist for players as a form of DoT ADCtH but was removed from all items and effects that had it and replaced with straight up ADCtH which I guess is simpler. Enemies still have it though like Mad Queen.

TQ had the same flat / DoT separation, DoT builds were (imo) just less viable than they are in GD

Now you made me sad because I realized that I don’t remember so much stuff about TQ when I used to play it like every day for few years… Still played it till like march 2017. :confused:

But anyway, damage boosting in TQ was weird.

Tried so hard to make burn in TQ work. Only dream mastery could DoT ok