DoTs on minions that scale with the player

Does DOT stack when used by same minions that use player formula for dam calculation, for example 3 wind devils or 3 blade spirits? is it counted as different DOTS from three sources and stacks, or is it considered same source and only 1 stack is applied no matter how many minions attack?

depends on the source of the DoT
Each pet is their own, so if they use a stacking DoT attack it will stack per pet, if it’s not stacking it wont
Easy example is wind devil aura vs blade spirit aura, devils’ aura dmg and DoT don’t stack, blade spirit’s aura do.
Maelstrom stacks per wind devil applying it. A non debuff DoT devotion attached to either devils/blade spirits will stack per pet using it, a debuff dot wont

To elaborate further, how about:

  • blade spirit’s innate 300 dps bleed
  • burn from Pyran’s set applied to Mortar traps
  • A combination of innate electrocute and maelstrom electrocute from each wind devil (I guess you sort of answered that but just to make sure).

Do I get, for instance, 4 * 300 bleed damage (300 from each blade spirit) stacking?

It sure is numerically a lot, it just doesn’t feel that amazing in game for whatever reason

All elements/portions of Blade Spirit has stackable dmg potential
Mortar traps likewise use only stacking attacks
any DoT modifier applied blade spirits or mortars will thus stack per pet

Devils, Thermite mines and Inquis seals are different, their base skill is a debuff class/non stacking, that means any bonus dmg modifier added to those pets will apply to the debuff aura portion and not stack.
But the same true dot non debuff devo, like Fiend’s Flame Torrent (burn), will stack per pet triggering it, regardless if attached to Devils, Spirits, Mines or Mortars - since Flame Torrent then is the main source of the DoT

yes,
actually you get more, since you get it per attack, (and as i understand it blade spririt dmg modifiers is applied to both the aura and blade eruption attack)

Thank you. Well, pretty complicated hah.

Blade spirit 26/16 is like 300 cold, 300 pierce, 300 bleed per second (roughly), assuming a conversion that would mean 600 “base” elemental damage and 300 bleed, stacking to 2400 dam per tick and 1200 bleed per second, which is huge (or like 2000 bleed if you add that scarab shield MI). The base number is impressive but ingame, it’s hardly the mindblowing killer.

Actually my Wildblood dude with his 26/16 Swarm does like 50k damage per tick, and he technically has much less damage. The base damage with items (with Lagoth and Wildblood set) adds up to mere 260 vita, ~320 bleeding per second. The blade spirit, if using the same damage/int modifiers should do like 10 times more damage and it sure doesn’t tick for combined 500k.

There must be something I’m missing here.

RR probably
you can easily see this on actual bleed dedicated blade spirit builds where getting 500k ticks isnt’ really that hard as i recall

Might be true. I never really got that far into a blade spirit build, but I do have a pretty buff chillwhisper dude and the blade spirits sure aren’t mindblowing there. Huh.

because flat dmg doesnt merge the same?
Bleed stacks because dot/true dot combines into a single dmg display number so things don’t bloat
flat dmg numbers doesn’t, so you get them displayed per spirit, popping off from target in their own direction

just like when you beam with AAR/the big lazor, you dont’ get 1 continous stream of number/1 value replacing the other or combining to show total tick dmg done. You get a pop left and right each 6th of a second with a value of their own.

Well, yes. What I meant is that the combined damage of Blade spirits on my Chillwhisper dude is quite tame compared to quite a few of my other builds. Going by pure maths, a 600 cold damage spirit times four equals to like 2400 base cold damage combined. I don’t know the exact values, but just going by numbers it should be huuuuge… yet in DPS, I’m quite sure the drain essence outputs more, since I can leave a boss in the midst of 4 spirits and it’s not that mindblowing. And drain essence is li

I guess I’ll have to make me a dedicated bleed dude when FoA hits. Maybe onslaught ends up buffing permapets upon summoning them,. That would be wild :smiley:

I kinda love dots in this game. So fun.

it sounds like a lot, but it’s not, let alone when you then consider it’s fixed 1x/second - and ofc affected by resist etc
you can have a player attack, before modifiers, dealing like idono, 4-600? base dmg, which is then scaled anywhere from 3-4-6-12x a second because of potential speed scalability
that’s also ignoring additional elements like the (huge) variable if a spam skill includes weapon dmg

there’s a reason why Spirits/pseudo pet dmg is either only used in specific/peak dedicated builds, or “exploited” to have some sort of meaningful dmg gains (devo stacking)
They aren’t generally meant to full carry a char/build to the same degree as other direct attack skills/builds are, or like regular pets, and not without a fair amount of build dedication(bonus modifiers/specific items) - devs dont’ want us to just have free dmg/high dmg stacking potential immortal pets

Thanks for your help!

One final question, I’m not sure if I understand this correctly.

Hellborne does have like 15000 burn retal over 3 secs, or 5000 ps tick. A skill doing 50% of that as retal (Grenado’s high impact iirc) should do like 2500 ps tick… but it sure doesn’t feel like it. Does it work that way or am I mistaken here?

general dot rule is same source dot don’t stack
ie if you attack with blank weapon skill (effectively 100% wepaon dmg) with 2500 burn, ex movement rune that has 240%weapon dmg, those 2 attack’s WD burn wont stack; so only the rune WD burn gets counted
Retal is “worse” in that retal dot just doesn’t stack at all, so you get 1 application of the Burn retal total or 1 rata, any other applications wont scale higher, thus effectively wont get counted. This makes/made rata dot retal borderline useless as you couldn’t even scale it from different rata application skills, resulting in extremely poor dot retal returns
And is why most dot retal sources got turned into flat retal couple patches ago, unsure why there is still like 3-4 sources left tho.

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I also had some dot questions actually.
Since it doesn’t stack, does attack speed matter at all when making a dot (bleed) build?
Does adcth work on dot damage?

true dots can’t leech or scale adcth dmg - this is why adcth bleed builds tend to stack ungodly amounts to leech from the minor flat dmg they do do.
Whether or not speed matters at all can be partially up to debate i think. You’re in most cases still doing some sort of flat dmg, phys/pierce/vit, so speed can ofc benefit those.
On the technical level the way DoTs roll is the highest one counts and keeps counting until it runs out or is replaced by a higher.
Attacking more frequent then gives you more chances to either get that new higher dot, or atleast keep your high(est) going.

Direct DoT dps wise it wont matter in the same sense because of the fixed 1x/sec dmg, so it’s mostly about trying to get that higher hit to occur, which then will increase the dps.
In most cases for DoT builds that wont really be significant, as most of the good DoT skills are cooldown based (or just attack on their own like Spirits). It’s not like spam Blade Arc is gonna give you amazing dot hits, so you’re largely using the flat dmg there, thus want speed. Savagery is a bit different since you’re weaving in AA with WPS scaling among your other attacks, but it’s not like the attack speed itself on it or spam PB is technically what’s scaling your dots, you’re largely using the speed for different means, more frequent chancing out on the larger DoT hit just being secondary.

If you’re a DoT build that doesnt’ even have a spamable, i’d probably personally only prioritise speed as far as comfort goes (some skills are slow af to cast) and not chase it to the same degree. If it were a “choice” between the two, i’d probably prioritise cast speed a little over attack speed, since stuff like ring of steel, swarm, can just be annoying to deal with at low cast speed.
If you’re like a dual wield melee savagery wps centric bleed trickster, i’d definitely stack some attack speed, just to get that lower flat and leech flying, but also still cast speed so RoS and swarm doesn’t feel clunky or downright interrupting.

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Thanks for the explanation!