ten chars
All of you saying ājust use another skillā are missing the point.
First impressions count. From a game design point of view, ideally all early skills should be delightful to use at every stage of progression. Evidently very early ranged Cadence is not, at least in comparison to other skills. And I do buy that argument based on the mathematics presented.
This something that can be improved. And thereās nothing wrong with making something better, no matter how minor. Getting even minor details right is what separates the great from the mediocre.
I havenāt read through this entire thread, but I suspect an easy fix/improvement is just to adjust the progression of the passthru rate. Start with 50% at level 1 and increase by 10% per point until level 6. Thatās it.
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i can tell ā
itās gonna have basically no influence
the argument being made here, atleast by me(and a few others chiming in) is not that the 9.8 isntā technically a downgrade, itās that it does not (even remotely) have the suggested āpainfulā impact
not only because itās for 15mins, and 2 levels, but because you still get passthrough, even if its less
and more passthrough for 7-8, is not gonna radically change the core issue that is with ranged cadence levelling, which is single target dmg,
iāve levelled multiple characters 1-10 since this nonsense debate started, with passthrough (rushing FF), slightly slower passthrough/grabbing few points in wps, 0 passthrough and max cadence, and 9.7 passthrough values
there is basically no āsignificantā difference in the current passthrough values, because the core issue is low dmg, not aoe trash clear rate
even if you slapped 100% passthrough on at level 7 it would not really be that hugely difference, because we are talking about 15minutes of gameplay (obv exaggeration, not saying there would be 0 difference),
the issue is blown way out of proportions, because the difference from now to before is pretty small in āeffectā ingame for the duration and content you are playing
again, iām not arguing against increasing the values, iām saying itās not as significant as attempted to be portrayed, so itās not really āfixā to an actual issue, as it is just returning to the old/have game consistency (which is also fine) - and suggesting it is an issue, rather than whatever underlying reason/goal is at play, is dishonest (imo)
(and because iāve actually tested/played this several times it feels like the underlying reason/goal is more personally motivated in saving 4pts than my other gripe with the dishonesty of projecting this as something for the poor new players to not suffer from)
change the values back/higher, fine, argue for that, iād be totally ok with devs buffing the values
just stop trying to make make mountains out of molehills as to the reason for said change, make the case out of consistency, donāt try to portray this as the reason why early cadence is bad, or that the passthrough lvl 7-8 change is somehow detrimental to that affect
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Iām done talking to you in this thread.
Weāve been over this many times, the number of points are not the point. The point is that the values assigned to the points are insufficent. Iām not talking to you when all you do is repeat the same things youāve said before, and you insult me again after I asked you not to.
I donāt know why you keep claiming thereās no problem, when the video you posted of gameplay demonstrates that there is a big problem. Two different characters who have AOE comparable to what ranged cadence used to have were able to clear out pusquillās minions 4x as fast as you could do with the new numbers.
An early game ranged cadence build which spends every point on the sole goal of gaining as much AOE as quickly as possible should not have 4x worse AOE than every other comparable ranged build.
Maybe youāre used to leveling characters with no AOE and more single target. If you want to level that way, even though itās suboptimal, thatās your choice, but I see no reason why people who do want to max out AOE to level more efficiently should be punished because you donāt level that way.
they are not, my vids demonstrates this perfectly in how simply and comfortably they deal with the enemies
it does not, there is no threat, cumbersome impact, or significant reduce in clear speed for cadence
you are comparing it to 2 other irrelevant skills, when the sole comparison here in this vid/fight is about 50% passthrough vs 90%, thatās the only relevant metric, and it has very less significance than youāre trying to suggest
is 3000% irrelecant to this discussion or the cadence change
again, deal with cadence itsel, youāre dealing with 2 instances of change
first being 50 vs 90% value at lvl 7, my video shows characters are playing and fighitng aoe fights just fine at 50% - and the change impacts a grand total of 7 shots; all the other shots the changes has 0 influence on
next is lvl 8 80% passthrough vs 100%, this is also a very insignificant impact in levelling and gameplay effect, but more importantly, way less than youāre suggesting or trying to suggest
it would not be much different on 9.7
what part are you not getting here?, the other builds, the other classes, the other better aoe skills would still be better, significantly so, because the aoe/passthrough value is not the major factor going on there
itās the cadence dmg itself, youāre firing too few shots for the passthrough values to have significant impact overall, meanwhile your cadence dmg is low from rushing FF so you still take multiple cadence shots to kill a single trash mob, even with passthrough, this is bad,
more passthrough would not improve that much, because youāre not shooting 15enemies in a single shot, youāre shooting 2-5, so the dmg reduct on passthrough is way less than you think/suggest, because itās affecting few enemies at a given time
itās not about being used to, iām telling you, iām showing you video of stuff that is now
iāve levelled multiple characters since this debate started, iām not running on memories here like you migh think, iāve actually played this stuff in the past 48hours, multiple times, to compare,
and thatās why my conclusion is what iām saying, that itās not remotely as impactful as you suggest or are trying to make it out to be; Because i actually tried it
youāre running on assumptions based on numbers/math of the passthrough formula, instead of actually playing it and feeling and seeing how less of a detrimental impact it is, contra to how big an issue you suggest it is
iāve played it iām not running on probability or past characters iām playing this as is, iāve spent hours at this point levelling multiple different cadence chars in various different ways to find the detrimental difference, and itās just not there
unsure if it needs highlighting a 5th time, iām not against returning the values, iām against your entire portrayal of this
this is probably the āworst case scenarioā in terms of aoe clear, since 0 passthrough/not even taking zolhan
and itās still fine, levelling time even similar,
the earlier 2/3 instances i mentioned of passthrough mattering is also at display here, viloth cave and putrid den
*levelling time is similar/lvl 9 time, this video records fully to lvl 10 so there is an extra 10āish minutes from that