EoR is still the worst main skill

22% lifesteal (probably more from highrolled weapon.
30% healing increase (not the most but also not negligible)
+18% WD to EoR
3k+ DA
21% absorb
83% max res

I’m not surprised the HP bar only visibly moves in boss rooms.
Defensively, the build is way overqualified for SR 30.

Other than the DA, this is all opportunity cost. 83% max res is the reward for using a Conduit at the sacrifice of not using set amulets. 21% Absorb is the reward for using Possession as opposed to any other class/exclusive. 18% of that Healing Increase is the reward for playing an Oathkeeper build - if banana really wanted to, he could have gotten another 4% by softcapping Haven, but he obviously chose not to. 16% of that 22% lifesteal is the reward for choosing that weapon specifically, as is the 18% WD to EoR.

Each of these choices has a cost (other than Haven, which you are free to take by virtue of playing OK by necessity for EoR). Prattling off the roster of these defenses is a shallow examination of banana’s build choices, as each of these comes at the sacrifice of other stats, be that damage or other defensive options - including each other.

Only the DA investment speaks to a clear identifying pursuit that was out-of-the-way for this build.

E: I foresee this discussion going back-and-forth further. I’d rather not clog up this thread in that regard. Reply as you will, but I’ve said my piece on both the thread itself and the commentary on leeching viability. It’s unlikely you’ll convince me (and, apparently, Rekt) of otherwise to the latter.

1 Like

My point was just, with those defensive stats, any build with any sustain would hardly see the HP bar move.
EoR “attacking faster” doesn’t give it some “black magic giga-sustain”.

Leech is tied to DPS, EoR doesn’t have broken DPS.
But it has AdctH downscaled to ~0.4 - 0.7x (depending on equipment).

(Not sure what prompted you to write out a full guide to each stat in banana’s setup)

At the risk of countermanding my prior edit,

Let’s be generous here and say its ADCtH is downscaled to 0.4x. And let’s also say it only attacks 4x as fast. The rate of your healing is still 1.6x that of anything at 100% WD (or more, since ADCtH doesn’t scale past 100%). Yes, damage output is a factor. But even if EoR’s damage is lower than many other skills, I don’t think it’s multiplicatively less so to such an extreme degree.

But also, there is some “black magic giga-sustain” at play because faster healing is better than chunky healing. Chunky healing risks overhealing you when you don’t need it and being on downtime when you do. Quick but small heals do not run into this issue, and by and large, Grim Dawn has very few true oneshots. Many “how did I get oneshot here?” posts are actually someone taking multiple instances of damage very quickly. Faster, consistent heals offset these situations more than sheer big-number-better heals would.

Which is all to say, whatever issues EoR may have, I do not think leeching is one.

4 Likes

Fundamentally flawed logic, assuming that “more hits = more leech”.

An EoR build with 100k DPS, 40% WD and 20% AdctH leeches 20000*0.4 = 8000 HP/sec (not factoring in Leech resistance).

A regular 100% WD build with 100K DPS and 10% AdctH leeches 10000 HP/sec.

Yes, the multiple small hits are slightly beneficial for consistency.
Yes, the big consistent AoE helps compensate for small leech in large packs of monsters.

But the basic leech is simply less than half as effective, on a build that needs to get close and personal. I find it very noticeable against single targets.

And if your experience with EoR leech is significantly better than mine, good for you.
I just don’t think 100% WD, with some changes to base damage and skill mods, would make the skill broken at all. People have a tendency to overestimate the impact of WD.

1 Like

Current chais EoR has 65% WD with a very high WD value and is doing jack shit.

What about 100% WD proposal is exactly lolno to you? 12 times 100% is 1200% WD per second which is lower than avg current 2H melee Shaman build and much lower than avg DW build.

What is this number? I just checked my 198% as Ritualist with WPS, it performed 40 hits in less than 12 seconds.

Every EoR build, other than this chaos one with much higher WD and maybe the vit 2H one, needs to have haunted steel in mainhand, otherwise it dies.

Possible FoA UI spoiler? I can’t recall whether live build/1.3 has Attacks per Second.

image

1 Like

It says 2.69 in the 1.3 PT tooltip. It has no translation into reality.

So do you actually have 2.71 hits per second in game (you timed it and calculated) or is it just a tooltip trusting statement?

I am trusting the tooltip until given reasons not to.

Napkin math of “40 hits in under 12 seconds” is not a good enough reason.

If you’re confident in a tooltip discrepancy, file a bug report.

1 Like

dear lord…

If i start filing a bug report about every lie i see in the tooltip, i wouldn’t even know where to start.

Only you can prevent forest fires, my guy.

3 Likes

I’m one man. I can’t report all bugs, test all builds and correct all misinformation on this forums alone.

But you’re going to have closer to 200% attack speed, right? So it’ll be more like 2000-2400%WD per second.
And if you have a ~3 hits per second (40/12) you need ~400%WD per hit to get to the 1200 and 800% (or maybe 600% if it’s a bit more than 3 hits/s) per hit for the 2000-2400%. Is that achievable? :thinking:

I think if you give it 100% wd than you can adjust flat damage numbers on the skill and item mods. I can’t see it being broken give that a lot of EoRs are one-handed. We are talking about bases like this:

изображение

3 Likes

If EoR is getting weapon damage buffed to 100% (preferably at softcap or something, not with hardcap + every % weapon damage mod possible), it should be pretty obvious that tickrate has to go down to compensate. And, of course, all item mods should be adjusted accordingly.

EoR needs buff. It needs to shoot rainbow :rainbow: ray beams in all directions

1 Like

This 2.71 make no sense, as different skills have different animation frames. 2.71 is calculated by default attack of 2h weapons, whose animation is 21 frames.
And, the tooltip ignores 25% hidden speed of play characters, i.e., even if you use default attack, your actual attack speed is ~2.71*1.25=3.39

If 1H and 2H have the same % speed, yea, tick rate is the same. But 2H has slower base speed, It’s harder for 2H to reach the same % speed as 1H.

No, that is not obvious.

So you want 100+% damage per hit buff without touching tickrate? Let’s be real here, it’s not gonna happen.