[Feedback] Mechanics that destroy the game balance

There are multiple mechanics that the game has that fuck up everything about balance. Players simply ignore them or give feedback not even thinking about what they’re facing or which stats are applied.

  1. [li]Mutators[/li][ul]
  2. People often give feedbacks even though they don’t look at which mutators they have applied. The stats given by those are small, but still game changing more than anything. Yesterday I played SR 75+, didn’t really care about mutators, but then realized my damage is shit and I feel like I literally do not play the same build as I did before and that’s the exact same build. Reduced casting speed for me, reduced damage, some bullshit reduction on top of that, 70% HP to enemies, increased damage, chance to slow, increased AS, some other bullshit that would fuck every build. If I made my feedback based on those mutators I got yesterday, it’d be a simple “Retaliation DE sucks and should be buffed”. Other time I played, SR 75 - 80 was easier than SR 35, I felt like I do not play on a high shard.
    People always play Crucible or SR to test builds, they do few runs (usually it’s not more than 5, most likely) and then give feedback. Mutators are random as fuck and you might be lucky enough to get those which fuck your build more than Mogdrogen does a level 1 naked character. Then the feedback is “X sucks and should be buffed” or “X is OP please nerf Crate wtf are you doing you suck”. Callidor’s Tempest suffered the most because of that. Spellbinders used it with Agrivix, posted their videos of how OP CT is and everything and Crate nerfed it to death, now CT sucks no matter how much you focus on it. When I saw the damage Cold CT does, I thought the streamer just fucked up in their build, but then we tried other stuff to make it work, still sucked. Target dummy could not die.

  3. I’d be way better if mutators would be removed or affected the game differently. For example, reduced stun, freeze etc resist, increased spawns etc. Or at least make it roll new ones after every boss room in SR and every 10 waves in Crucible so we don’t always run with the same stuff, which either destroy our runs or make it as we’d just mod us infinite power.

[li]Racial damage[/li][ul]
[li]The same issue as above, people use it but don’t even remember about it or just don’t care. A build does 300k DPS and suddenly the damage increases by 75% to 525k and a build/skill becomes “OP” or that particular enemy is easy as fuck - no one cares what caused that or simply forget they have 75% damage to humans and then their feedback is “skill is OP please nerf”. [/li]
When I once said my bleeding Warder does 1 million ticks vs. Fabius people simply either said this build is just OP or just didn’t believe, meanwhile - 50% damage to humans and about +82% bleeding damage because RR.

[li]Distinguish the damage values between racial-enhanced damage and normal damage. Make it blue, for example, if you do racial damage and normal (so as it is now) when not. Reduce the effective values of racial damage so it won’t be game changing.[/li]


I’ll probably keep this thread updated when I think of another fucked up mechanics.

About Racial Damage:
I think a lot of people (me included) know exactly what they do when taking it. When I write (for example) that I have absolutely no problem with Reaper than I mention that I have Racial Damage against Undead and Beasts.

Same like your example with Fabius; I made a screenshot in AoM (posted in my build thread) with nearly the same amount (and I know it is a lucky shot and most of the time total overkill because he would even die with a 500.000 damage DoT because it is the last DoT after stacking all I have).

Racial Damage is also an option if you can´t high amounts of RR. You can compensate it with Racial Damage.

Is it really game changing? Don´t think so.

Destroy is a bit much.

As for mutators, there are 2 I think are a bit overboard but otherwise ok. You want linear testing for crucible but the design is for this randomness.

For me what fucks up crucible, and desire to play is the inability to choose your map. Restart 20 times, kills my soul and makes me want to quit the game. A design that I will never understand. But that’s be. If forum doesn’t complain about it I guess people like restarting :smiley:

If you get a nasty as fuck combo, your build literally sucks. If you watched the best videos in the world recorded on the best PC in the world which I possess, you’d see I can facetank anything no problem. Yesterday when I played I felt like I play on a different build, because that’s how bad it went. I kept getting 5k hits on my ass and all thanks to mutators. Another run felt again as I’d play on a different build, because I didn’t take 5k hits anymore, and everything was the same but mutators. Yes, boss difference too, but Fabius, Moosilauke, Benn and some other shit standard bosses hit me for 5k (SR 77), while in next run (SR 76) I got Moosilauke, Aleks, Ramzul and Gargabol, and they didn’t even hit close to 5k (facetanking Meteors while Ramzul kept molesting me).

That’s what people say when they’re overreacting :rolleyes:

I actually don’t like mutators on rogue dungeons/dangerous areas. I’d rather keep it as cruci and sr exclusive and just make the scaling on those dangerous areas better. Or level up the enemies in there.

@bleeding warder example: people actually thought bleeding warder was OP? lmao 1M bleed ticks is normal on that build but it’s still totally inconsistent cause OA is generally shit.

  1. No, what you describe isn’t an issue because builders are well aware that mutators affect crucible timers / SR depth a lot.

I do agree that some mutators are more bullshit than the other (like no way 8% phys res fucks your damage the same way as 8% pierce res). I think people just need to discuss mutators more and suggest tweaks rather than simply complain about it.

As for CT I’ve been telling all the time that less than 50% of CT build’s damage is CT itself, the rest are conveniently aligned procs and devastation and aether flat damage stacking. That’s why it’s not enough to just convert CT to cold for cold CT to work. Same with fire, same with lightning, same with chaos.

  1. Yet again you claim that people don’t care while in truth builders are very aware of that. And given that the most recent Inq nerf hit Steel Resolve I conclude that devs are aware as well.

@bleeding warder example: people actually thought bleeding warder was OP? lmao 1M bleed ticks is normal on that build but it’s still totally inconsistent cause OA is generally shit.

Not anymore and as I said, the 1M tick is overkill. And I think it might be before Guillotine nerf.

There are “top builders” that I won’t point out that literally don’t care about those. Hence their suggestions are fucked up and this already caused CT to be nerfed when Agrivix Spellbinders ruled Crucible. It was either along with Agrivix nerf or just after it where CT lost a ton of damage, effectively making it top worst skill in the game, when it was just mediocre.

My own opinion - aside from “deadly” for low DA builds(+60% crit damage - that can simple be a oneshot for some bosses) , maybe, and +70% HP (a bit too much compared to other mutators - maybe change into +55% or add some drawback like -10% damage) other mutators are fairly balanced. They dont make any seroius effects. Furthermore, sometimes those +6% max res bonuses are a VERY powerful defensive boon.

SR is imbalanced not because of mutators. It’s imbalanced because you have to fight several bosses at once, and those bosses are balanced to be fought 1 by one in campaign. Bosses in GD often possess very powerful debuffs, and combines they turn your character into a vegetable by all that resist shreds, damage shred, fumble/impaired aim, OA/DA shreds and so on. I dont even mention buff dispel from Gravatul and Arcane heroes. Your success in SR depends less on mutators, and more - on what boss combination you encounter in the room. If there happens to be a boss with insane RR (Anasteria) along with another boss, who has decent base damage, then you’re screwed. Even with 40 res overcaps, Anasteria brings your res to ~60, meaning you receive 2x damage (or even more), so another bosses suddenly oneshots you. Or, encounter a boss who puts 50%+ damage reduction, along with other that put 50%+ miss/fumble, and watch your DPS lowering to 1/5 of origibal value, or even lower. And you can do nothing about that at all - res shred can be countered by insane res overcap (70+ or so), at least, but you can do NOTHING VS damage shred, and fumble/impaired aim (if you’re melee/ranged).

CT was not mediocre. It was good. I made a CT build without devastation and Mercymaker did 6min runs with it. This was before the era of Agrivix. Clairvoyant was still king during this time. THEN CT GOT FUCKING BUFFED IN Now I’m not against that buff, but that made people notice the power of CT and then started bitching about it. So Crate decided to nerf it, but in the wrong way. I guess Crate wanted to target binder sustain but it was too much. I want CT back to state. Seriously it was in a good place during that period.

I don’t know who you’re talking about. But if it’s true then you can pass these “top” players a vote of no confidence from me. Those I know are well aware of the power of the racial damage. They pretty much taught me that.

Mutators are the part of the game. By the way, there just a few really nasty of them. And you need to be a very lucky to get some combo of +res/HP/-damage etc.

In case of SR it’s hard to get more racial damage 'cause you need Prismatic Diamond for more defence and Living Armor/Sacred Plating for armor absorption

Btw, do Mutators that affect the player, affect Pets?

I have never paid them any attention, so I was going under the assumption that they didn’t.

Seriously these two things are destroying the game may sound like exaggeration,even if you don’t like them.

1.Mutators-some nasty ones.Actually 70% hp to monsters was reduced to 50%,toughened and crit damage reduction,which can basically delete all of yours critical damage are the only culprits.

2.Racial bonus-Don’t see an issue here.Going for chaos/aether build will result in damage type without dot and with low RR.You have to fight against a lot of undead or chtonics,so racial damage is godsend.Also it makes sense for Nightblades to deal more damage against humans,is part of their traits.

That’s a nice question. I’d say no because there’s no “bonus to all pets” nor auras. But I don’t know, we’d have to ask Zantai, I think. :stuck_out_tongue:

Probably why pets are godlike in cruci :rolleyes:

Not that I don’t like them, I just don’t like seeing people’s feedback based on shitty/godlike mutators. I am tired of seeing posts like “retaliation DE sucks now”, “AAR is god tier now, #1 skill in GD”, “Devastation is a joke… lol” etc.

Well, assuming your crit chance is 25%, the loss of 30% crit damage translates into ~7.5% DPS loss. Not scary at all - other murators inflict much higher damage penalty actually.

Racial bonus is very strong indeed, but it works only VS some enemies. I find it quite balanced too. Yes, you might eradicate some bosses with it, but only SOME of them.

Grim Dawn’s balance wasn’t destroyed. It was murdered.

Yes, they do.