The slot is also heavily contested by lots of MI shoulders that can be build defining.
Some of those MI’s outclass like, most of what I listed above just by having ONE solid affix.
These non-set shoulders have long been forgotten and I think making them all viable would feel really good for build diversity and take away some of the cookie-cutter set feeling that has creeped in a bit.
Another possibility (I didn´t look up all items mentioned here but for Vileblood it fits) is the Level Requirement.
With Lvl 94 there are already the sets. Sets are easier than ever to get and the set boni are too good to pass (Important: This should stay!). So make this items Lvl 84 because for leveling they are quite okay perhaps even good.
Vileblood Mantle and Bloodfury Spaulders (which are Lvl 84) are very good when you are this level and can´t wear sets. They won´t be endgame viable but I don´t think every item has to be.
If you want them seen on endgame-builds…well, make very set a 5-piece set with set boni at 4 items. Or, if you have a 4 piece set, at 3. But you have to be careful with balancing then.
Yeah, vast majority of non-set, non-MI shoulders are in a very bad spot. The only really good one I can think of is the dawnshard shoulder with the dr proc, and even that was too much by looking at the patch notes…
Same comment that I made in the boots and pants thread: some % damage, a few skill points, mediocre resists and and irrelevant proc (bad trigger, no rr, dr, highish %wd…) don’t make an item appealing.
There’s seemingly no skill modifiers on that slot, but completing the set mostly does the same thing if not usually far better. Heck, some set items are more desirable than their stand-alone equivalents without counting the set bonus…
Even as leveling tools they fail when Lokarr set exists…
Gloves are mostly fine imo, FG added quite a bit of diversity and skill modifiers usually make a good job at making an item desirable for a given build.
Those shoulders are BiS for DE retal oppressor, as are great for other retal builds too. Elecrocute retal on it is really massive.
Oh? I need to update mine then. Totally slipped my mind. Didn’t think of retal to attack. Removing it from the list.
edit note to self, re-add to bottom of the list, with note about it being great for that retaliation build, but that its other +skills/aspects of its identity could be potentially improved.
What about Shadowflame Mantle? It doesn’t seem to fit into any build.
Harbinger pyromancer, as example
I, however, prefer to use some of Ben’Jar’s shoulders
Ah, fair enough. I was under the impression that Harbinger is only used with Rah’zin now. In any case, I doubt the Aether conversion and Arcanist bonuses are being utilized.
- Venomtongue Mantle: increased Health to 405 and increased damage on the skill proc
- Embercore Shoulderguard: added Fire damage, 3% Attack Speed and 25% of Lightning dealt as Fire, increased Burn damage on the skill proc. Removed Physical damage
- Mythical Chilldread Mantle: increased Offensive Ability to 75, added 30% Stun Resist and reduced Cooldown on the skill proc
- Mythical Vileblood Mantle: updated the skill proc
- Mythical Lifeblaze Mantle: increased Offensive Ability to 66, added 4% Cast Speed and 4% Physical Resist, removed Conversion. Increased Damage and reduced Cooldown on the skill proc.
- Fateweaver’s Mantle: skill proc now activates at 45% Health, instead of when Crit, Cooldown adjusted accordingly
1.1.4 changes. It also just occurs to me that there is overlap between embercore and blazeborn and changing that might really help the shoulders find a place. Embercore should probably support firestrike or something instead, and blazeborn be grenado and something else.
I really want to remove some of these from the list, but since these items were struggling to compete with set items to even exist in the meta, I need feedback from some of you guys to suggest what updated shoulders are fine now.
Re: Venomtongue Mantle. Imho it’s pretty specifically aimed at witchhunter shoulder that can go with the vile pact set.
For example, this is Nery’s: Vile pact witch hunter with Zantarin’s Shoulder
And if you juggle some points into Witchfire, maybe like so: Nery’s build with Venomtongue and some skill juggling
So you gain another 25% chaos->acid convert. But it still doesn’t really fit that well.
I really cannot think venomtongue can fit the build. Yes conversion is good, but raw stats and skill bonus is also important.
Venomtongue stats are really bad and it gives irrelevant skill bonus. Reordering the skill points around will make it worse as solael’s witchfire will only give (at max) its 80% flat and attack speed which we don’t really need in this build. It will need to take points in merciless repertoire and BoD, both of which will lower your stats and global acid damage.
I also meant to ask you Nery (as this build’s creator) if you have thoughts on this. It’s a shame that this mantle doesn’t fit anywhere else (imho).
Maybe it has limited use as a filler until a good MI is found? Or is an any-affix MI better than venomtongue?
@hammyhamster1 Skill bonuses and stats are just not enough to justify using it, at least not here. Plus I need stun resistance. So if I want to build no green, will have to use Radaggan shoulders.
general opinion seems to be that this shoulder really doesn’t fit, surprisingly even where the skill bonuses are targeted.
So maybe change bleed resist to something else and add some bonus skills to other masteries, such that the conversion can be useful in other combos.
ie, tweak it in the next update away from it’s current focus of witch hunter.
A major problem with any of these mantle is they break sets
very few builds are non-set based sadly.
That’s why I’m trying to see if we can’t get them improved to be a bit more competitive, or tweaked to work well with other slots that break sets. Etc. Or make them unique enough so that you can build around them and they don’t compete with sets because they do something entirely different. Shit like that.
Mythical chill dread is in a good place now especially with Stun res. Great on twohander Spellbreaker. But if we can get the + flashfreeze or + Night’s chill changed to + lethal assault it’d definitely see more plays. Or perhaps pierce to cold stat say 15%.
Yeah I was thinking with Ceno’s example and now your comment that that might be the case. I will remove them from the list. I don’t think your suggestions would break anything so hopefully Z sees and considers.
Like I said in other thread:
What about Mythical Bloodfury Spaulders? Never saw them on any build.
If theres +2/3 lethal assault on it then it would actually be good to break some set using it, making it truly competitive. Currently +lethal assault on cold build is too valuable otherwise.
I think that only the Demonslayer Phantasmal Blade can use this shoulder successfully.
However, Bis in these builds is MI, and I think we need to add at least + x Phantasmal Blade to compete fully with MI.
Or you might find interesting things like + x Blade Sprit, + x Blade Trap (in which case -Trap resist mod must be added at the same time).
And further, adding a little resistance of something makes this shoulder easier to use. (Eremental, Stun, Physical, etc. are good candidates.)
Bleed builds have a Bloodrager, so you can’t win all competing parts, including this shoulder. You should focus only on Vit.
Are you dying on the bosses? Clear time? Because if I’m willing to eat deaths I can get a lot of SR75 clears on builds most people wouldn’t consider SR75 worthy.
About Embercore Shoulderguard: I really like this as a bomb caster item, and it’s actually very close to being competitive with Ulzuin set shoulders IMO. Attack & Cast speed are pretty out of place and can probably be removed.
I tested a completely non-set setup with it, and mostly learned that the 3-piece ulzuin set bonus is not optional for this type of multi-bomber due to phys res. (I could probably patch this with Fateweaver’s + Devotions + Maybe Hellforged Legplates). Could not complete gladiator 150 reliably, but deals comparable damage to my more orthodox setup. Notice that the skill bonus to canister bomb frees up ring + chest slots on the non-set setup (albeit with help from Vanity and Eternal Flame), which is actually quite neat.
What I’d like to see added:
Flat Energy Regen (fire version of this is very energy hungry compared to Ulzuin + Barrelsmith)
Bleed Res (indirectly buffs energy by allowing us to take Osyr’s guidance instead of wisdom).
2-3% Phys res (probably not going to happen, but this and either of the options above would make breaking 4-piece set bonus worth it IMO).
For a 4th skill mod, Shattering Blast would be awesome.
Oddly enough, both have some issues with Lightning Res overcap, which makes lighting res a possible candidate for addition(s). But, I wouldn’t choose it over any of the above.