Feedback on non-set Shoulders and Gloves

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Guys let me know if I missed any or if any of the below is incorrect.

Venomtongue Mantle
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8292

Swap bleed resist for elemental, buff the flat health significantly, increase the chaos to acid to 30%, and add another +3 skill that fits for Witch Hunters. This thing is problematic. Oh and increase the DA reduction on the granted skill. With all the above it just MIGHT see some consideration.

Received: Venomtongue Mantle: increased Health to 405 and increased damage on the skill proc
Anyone working this thing?

Embercore Shoulderguard
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8293

Received: Embercore Shoulderguard: added Fire damage, 3% Attack Speed and 25% of Lightning dealt as Fire, increased Burn damage on the skill proc. Removed Physical damage

Needs 1.1.4 feedback. I feel it should support firestrike and flametouched instead of the skills it currently does for demo, and probably get a fourth +skill.

Also if you doubt the above 2 suggestions Zantai, check out your recently added Bonewraith Pauldrons: https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12391

More stats and benefits than the above and yet I’m still not sure it’ll see use.

Vileblood Mantle
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9209

The ability now reduces enemy physical damage. But while I’m super grateful this got utility, it needs some post 1.1.4 testing to verify whether or not it was effective.

Lifeblaze Mantle
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8288
1.1.4: increased Offensive Ability to 66, added 4% Cast Speed and 4% Physical Resist, removed Conversion. Increased Damage and reduced Cooldown on the skill proc.

So far good on a cabalist vitality drain essence build. Unknown performance for its demolitionist and oathkeeper side. Needs testing or suggestions.

Touch of the Everliving Grove
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9111

Zantai I know you buffed this a couple patches ago but please compare it to say… Mythical Colossal Grips ( https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9118 )

Pet builds don’t really use Everliving Grove last I checked. So if those are the stats holding this item back you could probably delete them. Yes Everliving Grove gives health but health stacking is not nearly as effective as DA stacking and resist stacking.
Everliving Grove has 0 DA some elemental resists.
Colossal Grips has 98 DA and 5% physical resist which is premium. (And has more base armor)

Everliving grips gives +2 to three skills.
Colossal Grips gives +3 to three skills and skill mods to two skills.

Everliving grips has a low chance burst heal on a moderate cooldown, Colossal Grips gives a nice shield passive buff. Okay they’re not perfectly direct comparisons but there’s no denying Colossal Grips is better. At this point I’d be willing to give up the speed on everliving grips all together if it meant it got to be a super solid defensive item. Making the gloves give a mini-healing-rain hp regen buff in a radius would probably be nicer too for people trying to make hp regen work.

Blazeborn Mantle (Make Grenado great!)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8291
You can replace +Grenado with +Ulzuin’s Chosen. A % chance for x% cooldown on the shoulder would be good. Replacing the proc with a 2hander passive would probably be neat. Instead of pierce should likely be physical, or better yet all three. If you won’t add phys resist then flat fire retaliation would be nice to compliment the %fire retaliation.

Nobody has ever used this item in a build in the history of the forum for a reason.

Fateweaver’s Mantle (unreliable proc with huge cooldown)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9203
TLDR; if this is still bad in 1.1.4 swap OA with DA and add base phys resist.
The circuit breaker is more reliable now, but the cooldown on it is crazy and didn’t need to be increased. Even if the cooldown had been reduced instead of increased, from like 40s to 35s or even 30s it probably still would have been a fine item.

Divinesteel Shoulderguard (good for retaliation build, not for anything else really)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9204
TLDR; Outside of retaliation it’s outclassed for everything else. Phys resist would as always make this see use. DA could be higher. Bleed resist doesn’t matter that much still with bloodied crystals. Less dmg from chthonic makes sense.
Some combination of the following would work-

  • Swap half of bleed resist for another resist. Chaos seems obvious, or aether.
  • DA could be higher
  • less dmg taken from racial fits in
  • God tier phys resist always desired

Other Balance Threads I’m managing and updating with each update:
Torso and Helm feedback
One-hander feedback
Two-hander feedback
Shields and Caster Off-Hand feedback
Jewelry Slot feedback
Leg and foot armor feedback
Relic feedback

2

Community literally for ages asked Z to bring back rr to bleeding on prok
Unless it not done - this shoulders still stay in “absolute trash” category
No one in own mind will not use this piece of crap instead of wildblood or bloodrager.

1 Like
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When I started Grim Dawn, I used them. But now…with the Set boni of Bloodrager´s it´s a no-go.

4

Non-set shoulders are in tough position,due most of the sets already have than slot covered.I rarely have used item other than Titan Pauldrons.

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Pretty much. That’s why I listed just about all of them.

6

The slot is also heavily contested by lots of MI shoulders that can be build defining.

7

Some of those MI’s outclass like, most of what I listed above just by having ONE solid affix.
These non-set shoulders have long been forgotten and I think making them all viable would feel really good for build diversity and take away some of the cookie-cutter set feeling that has creeped in a bit.

8

Another possibility (I didn´t look up all items mentioned here but for Vileblood it fits) is the Level Requirement.

With Lvl 94 there are already the sets. Sets are easier than ever to get and the set boni are too good to pass (Important: This should stay!). So make this items Lvl 84 because for leveling they are quite okay perhaps even good.

Vileblood Mantle and Bloodfury Spaulders (which are Lvl 84) are very good when you are this level and can´t wear sets. They won´t be endgame viable but I don´t think every item has to be.

If you want them seen on endgame-builds…well, make very set a 5-piece set with set boni at 4 items. Or, if you have a 4 piece set, at 3. But you have to be careful with balancing then.

9

Yeah, vast majority of non-set, non-MI shoulders are in a very bad spot. The only really good one I can think of is the dawnshard shoulder with the dr proc, and even that was too much by looking at the patch notes…

Same comment that I made in the boots and pants thread: some % damage, a few skill points, mediocre resists and and irrelevant proc (bad trigger, no rr, dr, highish %wd…) don’t make an item appealing.

There’s seemingly no skill modifiers on that slot, but completing the set mostly does the same thing if not usually far better. Heck, some set items are more desirable than their stand-alone equivalents without counting the set bonus…

Even as leveling tools they fail when Lokarr set exists…

Gloves are mostly fine imo, FG added quite a bit of diversity and skill modifiers usually make a good job at making an item desirable for a given build.

10

Those shoulders are BiS for DE retal oppressor, as are great for other retal builds too. Elecrocute retal on it is really massive.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrPylj2

11

Oh? I need to update mine then. Totally slipped my mind. Didn’t think of retal to attack. Removing it from the list.

edit note to self, re-add to bottom of the list, with note about it being great for that retaliation build, but that its other +skills/aspects of its identity could be potentially improved.

12

What about Shadowflame Mantle? It doesn’t seem to fit into any build.

13

Harbinger pyromancer, as example
I, however, prefer to use some of Ben’Jar’s shoulders

14

Ah, fair enough. I was under the impression that Harbinger is only used with Rah’zin now. In any case, I doubt the Aether conversion and Arcanist bonuses are being utilized.

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  • Venomtongue Mantle: increased Health to 405 and increased damage on the skill proc
  • Embercore Shoulderguard: added Fire damage, 3% Attack Speed and 25% of Lightning dealt as Fire, increased Burn damage on the skill proc. Removed Physical damage
  • Mythical Chilldread Mantle: increased Offensive Ability to 75, added 30% Stun Resist and reduced Cooldown on the skill proc
  • Mythical Vileblood Mantle: updated the skill proc
  • Mythical Lifeblaze Mantle: increased Offensive Ability to 66, added 4% Cast Speed and 4% Physical Resist, removed Conversion. Increased Damage and reduced Cooldown on the skill proc.
  • Fateweaver’s Mantle: skill proc now activates at 45% Health, instead of when Crit, Cooldown adjusted accordingly

1.1.4 changes. It also just occurs to me that there is overlap between embercore and blazeborn and changing that might really help the shoulders find a place. Embercore should probably support firestrike or something instead, and blazeborn be grenado and something else.

I really want to remove some of these from the list, but since these items were struggling to compete with set items to even exist in the meta, I need feedback from some of you guys to suggest what updated shoulders are fine now.

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Re: Venomtongue Mantle. Imho it’s pretty specifically aimed at witchhunter shoulder that can go with the vile pact set.

For example, this is Nery’s: Vile pact witch hunter with Zantarin’s Shoulder

And if you juggle some points into Witchfire, maybe like so: Nery’s build with Venomtongue and some skill juggling

So you gain another 25% chaos->acid convert. But it still doesn’t really fit that well.

Hi Hamster!

I really cannot think venomtongue can fit the build. Yes conversion is good, but raw stats and skill bonus is also important.

Venomtongue stats are really bad and it gives irrelevant skill bonus. Reordering the skill points around will make it worse as solael’s witchfire will only give (at max) its 80% flat and attack speed which we don’t really need in this build. It will need to take points in merciless repertoire and BoD, both of which will lower your stats and global acid damage.

I also meant to ask you Nery (as this build’s creator) if you have thoughts on this. It’s a shame that this mantle doesn’t fit anywhere else (imho).

Maybe it has limited use as a filler until a good MI is found? Or is an any-affix MI better than venomtongue?

NeryHerald

1m

@hammyhamster1 Skill bonuses and stats are just not enough to justify using it, at least not here. Plus I need stun resistance. So if I want to build no green, will have to use Radaggan shoulders.

TLDR.

general opinion seems to be that this shoulder really doesn’t fit, surprisingly even where the skill bonuses are targeted.

So maybe change bleed resist to something else and add some bonus skills to other masteries, such that the conversion can be useful in other combos.

ie, tweak it in the next update away from it’s current focus of witch hunter.

1 Like
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A major problem with any of these mantle is they break sets :frowning:

very few builds are non-set based sadly.

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That’s why I’m trying to see if we can’t get them improved to be a bit more competitive, or tweaked to work well with other slots that break sets. Etc. Or make them unique enough so that you can build around them and they don’t compete with sets because they do something entirely different. Shit like that.

19

Mythical chill dread is in a good place now especially with Stun res. Great on twohander Spellbreaker. But if we can get the + flashfreeze or + Night’s chill changed to + lethal assault it’d definitely see more plays. Or perhaps pierce to cold stat say 15%.

20

Yeah I was thinking with Ceno’s example and now your comment that that might be the case. I will remove them from the list. I don’t think your suggestions would break anything so hopefully Z sees and considers.