[Feedback] Sad Stormreaver/Veilkeeper Druid feedback

so, for the… well, again I tried this old build of mine: Druid, Level 100 (GD 1.2.1.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator, a hybrid of Upheaval and Storm Totems.

so, what are my concerns:

  • M. Stormreaver is still a joke weapon that has lower base damage than it’s non-myth counterpart. It also provides no phys>li for Savagery despite having the same mod for Cadence. And one would probably like to have that flat from Mog’s Pact converted.
  • Veilkeeper is still a bit of a joke too. Necro part I’m not even gonna talk about, it’s probably the case when bonuses should be completely reworked. But Arcanist part is also not that good. I’d really trade all those Arcane Will bonuses for sth less but stable. Thing is when it procs - you’re good. When it goes off - well, hope you got plan B.
  • Some other problems - lack of proper dr/disrupt res/Upheaval being Upheaval.

What I suggest?

  • Add phys>li conversion for Savagery fro the weapon. Finally swap the damage base values with its non-myth version. Add +2 to Savagery OR add +1 summon for Totem. It’s pretty frustrating to almost constantly disrupt your AA to cast Totem. This also affects speed in SR since you can’t even properly deploy your firepower.
  • Either tone down and move the Arcane Will bonuses to some passive (like IEE) or, maybe, add - cd to it.
  • Also this particular build will be very grateful for any kind of extra DA or DR since it virtually has none.

so, write your thoughts down below. maybe someone else recently played Stormreaver or Veilkeeper? Or maybe its Aether counterpart?

9 Likes

I agree with all of it. Stormreaver’s low weapon base situation continues to be a meme. Maybe long ago in AoM devs thought they keep Vindicators in check by having this low base and no phys conversion but nowadays when two-handers are so behind the meta and Vindicator as a class is kinda mid it just can’t be in this sad state.

1 Like

Isn’t that because it has a lot of electrocute on it? I thought it was.

that is a weird reason regardless

even if you look at the weapons that provide high DoT (Infernal Brimstone, Nightshade’s Reach etc), their mythical versions all have higher damage base than non-myth ones. What makes Stormreaver an exception is unclear.

I think now all 1h weapons for Savagery have phys conversion for their respective damage type (li, cold, vit, pierce) but 2h have none.

2 Likes

Maybe +1 summon, not limit increase?

DR is indeed a problem for Lightning, and Druid has none (except for Nullification’s Elemental DR).

Maybe, I meant the thing when you can summon more totems per 1 cast.

2 Likes

okay, it’s time to poop, and poop really hard.

I tried the aforementioned build after Stormreaver buffs. Tweaked it a bit since it feels like every build has to have some kind of CC effect (petrify goes brr). I’m gonna say, Stormreaver buffs are good - gameplay is much more fluid. but I won’t talk about Stormreaver. I’m gonna talk once again about the weird thing that is Veilkeeper set and how we can possibly make it good.

It’s been probably a couple of years since I first made this build and tried to push it to the limit, so, I think, I have the right to ask if not for complete rework but for a serious change for this set.

let’s start by simply comparing what Veilkeeper offers in terms of stats compared to, say, any recently buffed set or its SR counterpart, like Goredrinker.

image image

so, as @banana_peel said in discord, chad res, massive hp, massive oa/da on one side, virgin 5% as and mid regen on the other. Not even mentioning that Goredrinker helm alone has more OA/DA than 2-piece bonus for Veilkeeper.

let’s continue with full set bonuses.

image image

so… one (Goredrinker) has 1) %damage, which is always good, 2) pretty good defensive stats in HP, LL, healing effects and unique 100% bleed duration reduction - and on top of that, pretty straighforward but very well working mods.

now, what can Veilkeeper offer? 1) 50 OA/DA - as I said, Goredrinker helm or, say, any Rotgheist part give overall more raw stats than this 2-piece bonus, 2) resists… for real now? These can be spread across set pieces easily and replaced with, say, %damage, as and some fat DA and 3) very questionable bonuses.

one of the main problems with Veilkeeper is that it’s trying to sit on two chairs at once and doesn’t succeed. the set technically boosts necro wps, and one may want to make an aether Ritualist or Spellbinder - but ironically, if you wanna play aether melee with those classes, you should avoid Veilkeeper at all costs simply because it ruins your damage via that weird split conversion, so any vitality flat is completely wasted.

for Upheaval the set offers kinda decent bonuses but then again, we have that aether/li split, at least w/o annoying conversion this time.

Arcanist part is just weak. flat and OA are ok but the bonuses to Arcane Will are kinda questionable. It’s good when you have it up but then it goes on cd and you better have plan B for that case. Necro part also has that weird li flat for Spectral Binding (you serious?) and for some weird reason only 100% regen instead of 325% on Arcane Will (guess regen Ritualist is too strong?).

sooooo… what do I suggest?

in the wake of recent reworks and builds being destroyed and born anew, I suggest maybe not a total rework but a massive overhaul to this set. Make it for both lightning and aether but not mix 'em up. Like, for lightning/Arcanist/Druid part - add some flat e-cute to IEE, transfer Arcane Will bonuses to it too and make them weaker but permanent. For aether/Necro/Ritualist part - remove the split conversion, make it 100% cold and vit>aether for WPS, maybe add extra targets. Replace li flat for SB with aether flat, increase regen.

I think it would be kinda cool and unique for the set to support 2 damage types separately, not in this weird pairing for the 1000th time. Moreso, we have several items that support aether Shaman but now the only set it has completely dumps the concept because of those stupid conversions.

Overall - overhaul the set bonuses completely. Increase the OA/DA bonuses massively, sprinkle those resists on set pieces or supporting gear and add instead %li/e-cute/aether and some massive DA, like 10%. set is in dire need of that stat particularly. Also freeze/stun resists on the medal are probably the most generic cc resists ever, would be nice to get at least one replaced with trap/petrify.

what would also be very nice is to see some form of DR baked into the set. maybe on Upheaval? Like, you bonk enemies that hard that they can’t really strike back.

overall, I’m ready for any noobs and noob defenders to come and argue that proposed changes would make the set too OP or ruin their aether/li ritualist they’ve been planning to complete FoA with but let them come.

in the end, some videos of how the set performs. naked ex is out of question if Grava emerges.

4 Likes

Having built and frequently play a DDD Druid using this set myself,

I can say that the split damage support is perfectly welcome and provides different options for character using this set playing a Druid, Spellbinder or a Ritualist. There are several options in the game for converting the damage granted to skills to either Aether or Lightning or you can enjoy them together as they are meant to be (in my opinion). These two damage types go together like chocolate and peanut butter! :sunglasses:

I mean, Arcane Bomb literally is this exact combo…

Personally, I think the changes to Arcane Will were a nice addition and make it last longer in the fights you need it to. Focusing on Arcane Will makes the set unique, going with IEE is just boring and not fun. :man_shrugging: Not knowing exactly when Upheaval will trigger or not (or multiple times in a row!) make it interesting to play (for me).

Redesigning the set would be a bit extreme, however, I can agree with some of the changes:

That much I think could be done to benefit the class combos. As it stands now, the set is pretty good where it is and does what it should do. DR is tough to get with Lightning Builds and could be bumped up and made stronger.

I do think comparing it to Goredrinker is a bit strange as that set needed quite a bit of Horse Testosterone injections to get it performing decently, whereas Veilkeeper has been just fine. :thinking:

2 Likes

Set is indeed all over the place with its bonuses. Like it is suggesting that we should play Lightning/Aether Ritualist that somehow uses two boosted wps and… Upheaval? Or should a player choose between Upheaval Ritualist and wps Ritualist? (that is if player even knows that taking wps greatly diminishes chances of proccing Upheaval, because if a player doesn’t know he just happily invests into skills set is boosting but then wonders will he ever proc Upheaval or not).
Cold to Aether conversion should be 100% with full set. Vitality to Aether would also be welcome.
Set bonuses are quite weak, I agree here too.
Arcane Will focus on Arcanist is really whatever. Gimmicky, but I don’t really mind it. As long as Shaman’s and especially Necro’s parts are fixed.

idono, to me it suggests “either”
*i feel like that mostly because it’s not really often we see true dedicated/intended hybrid dmg stuff, outside the weird jank with conflicting chaos/vit conversions
So it’s either lightning druid, or (aether druid god forbid?), or aether ritualist or lightnign ritualist
Whether you choose pure upheaval or regular wps then left as additional option (again speculating that since Z knows Upheaval interaction)
and because the flat dmg additions are so “careful” that we can convert them, ie flat lightning mods we can convert to aether, flat aether mods we can convert to lighting

atleast i feel like it would be rather unique if this was actually intended as dual aether lightning flat build, since that’s not really the set or general norm
(ember’s likewise doesn’t do dual chaos/fire we convert to one, goredrinker is “dual” purely because bleed is a dot etc sets lean towards conversion one way or another for flats)

to illustrate this
Flat mods to upheaval are universal, there is no conversion conflict, if you’re aether convert light, if lightning convert the aether, “equal”/ez
Conversion to necro wps are “shared”, so you can stack vitality flats if going lighting ritalist/binder?:woozy_face:), and cold if going aether; while converting the flat aether mods to either side

  • the flat aether mods compensate for the native conversion loss if going aether, while still boosting an offbrand lightning wps
    (hardcapped reaping 170 vit lost on aether but gains 220 aether mod, hardcapped necrotic has 206 cold lost on lightning but gets 220 aether to convert)
1 Like

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I think these three sets actually were intended to be DDD Builds. I have each of them that way and they definitely work! No need to convert Veilkeeper or Ember’s Calling to either way, just roll with it. Especially since both -RR% Devotions have these combos already…

Piercing/Bleeding from Goredrinker is a pseudo DDD, but definitely works with multiple builds as well.

2 Likes

ye i get that, but we’ve had that before, and it never really seem like double dmg was the main intent, but like secondary option or “meme flavour”.
infernal knight, light’s defender etc, idono bonemonger might be stretched as used for dual lightnign aether too since ele, but neither feels like they aim towards the duality as the direct aim, but either X or Y
heck the fire offhand to even make fire DEE literally steals more chaos, diminishing the flat chaos aspect/the sole aspect of the chaos side
VF items are also lopsided one way or the either, so you don’t get a great/“even” split trying to lean in to both just on the item side (for argument sake i will assume we manage 50/50 devos throughout)
image

to make this a more even split you then need to directly compensate one into the other, which suddenly makes it a much much deliberate approach than just the native/natural path
(chaos exclusive ring/chaos exclusive conversion belt/weapon etc)

*and just checking now you can’t even get fire/chaos overlap on gloves, boots, legs too :sweat_smile: , so you’ll be leaning one side or the other there resulting in less total bonus

that’s a bit of a stretch to call it fine since it has one part just not working at all, and the bonuses it provides are kinda unique (we all love that recently, don’t we?) but you can’t defend stuff like 50 OA/DA as a set bonus.

maybe we don’t see it because it doesn’t really work out? one good hybrid is Invoker with lightning/fire split. Another is I’d say Goredrinker since it could be built with either Pirce focus, Bleed or as a hybrid. For lightning/aether we already have some items and sets like that weird blue ammy/rings set and Allagast that also works either as lightning or some clunky and strictly worse one, and Light Defender that is lightning in 99,8% of cases. maybe we can just for once have a set that doesn’t play with that dual damage things and enables two separate playstyles/builds?

as I said, we already have li/aether sets, there’s not much unique in having another one, especially in its current state.

it got better with that extra CD, I’m just not a big fan of temporary mods like for Arcane Will and Blast Shield etc.

3 Likes

what i meant was this would be a unique situation if the intent was lightning/hybrid, since that hasn’t been the norm before
*Unique as abnormal, not unique as in good

and that’s what veilkeeper does, the way i see it
either enables aether
or it enables lightning
you can make an aether ritualist or lightnign druid etc, which is fine
since it’s not trying to act like a hybrid dmg build, since it’s not the norm, it then works like all the other sets, where we can lean the way we want, like how radaggan works as either acid set or as vitality set but we dont’ do “both” at the same time

*and the way i then described it/used the numbers to illustrate it allows for either lightning or aether focus without sacrificing the other/they are not mutually exclusive the way the mods work. So even the lightning mods can be used on aether setups, and the aether mods can be used on lightning setups

You have to be a devil’s advocate everywhere, man, did you even try assembling it as Lightning Ritualist or Aether Upheaval Ritualist? Because we did and it doesn’t work well. Just stop defending obviously jank stuff. Let us cook, so far changes done from our feedback were 100% on point.

Just an example of how your Lightning or Aether Ritualist idea falls apart (I am not even bringing up the fact that Necromancer has nothing to do with Lightning except those set bonuses). So let’s say I am playing a wps build:

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God damn, if I go Aether half of my Soul Harvest is gone into Lightning and vice versa.

Well okay then, gonna try exotic Lightning Ritualist with a two-hander that will surely go will because Lightning non-pet Ritualist is definitely a thing that all casuals play…

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No luck again, guess I am just gonna miss all of that Vitality flat on 30% of my hits!

That’s some twisted logic right there. So here is a deal, you are losing half of your flat on that wps but we are compensating it with extra flat so wps ends up having the same impact as it would be without mods? So why do I need those wps mods then?

P.S. Before you start speaking for all the casuals again, do present some videos and grimtools of working Lightning Ritualists and Aether Upheaval Ritualists, please

so you can work it both ways? that’s literally what i just said
and what’s the harm in that?

dafuq is your argument at all here? or did you skim through half of what i said where i’m sorta agreeing with you/pointing out this isn’t a hybrid dmg build set but just a set that allows 2 different builds “equally”
you want to want, solve which issue in that?
killing aether veilkeeper brinder/ritualist, or killing lightning veilkeeper druid - because i’m arguing for neither and not sure if you are or if so why that would even be on the table

like, have we argued so much recently you’re now in my camp of wanting to argue just to argue? or did you misread me?

as for your notion aether upheaval wasn’t a thing

guess you forgot someone already made it, posted it and found it satisfactory, - guess you forgot you saw that
(and since it was officially forum posted per your prior definition it makes it a real build :grin:)

2 Likes

The set is fine as is, your build plays well and is almost the same as what I did by going DDD. You could also use the set and go Aether Upheaval Druid as well. Same goes for Ritualist… you can go Aether, Aether/Lightning or Lightning.

And I did agree with the suggestions for changing the first and second bonuses, except I don’t agree with a drastic change to the set overall. It works as is and has an identity, albeit one that most people don’t see or build towards. And that’s the beauty of GD, there are literally so many ways to build and have characters work!

This is true and Bonemonger is primarily Aether.You can build them as DDD but it’s more difficult to do. Veilkeeper is unique here and I like that it’s different.

Agreed, you can craft it in different class combos and damage focus. However, I think that you all are missing the part that is most let down by the set, the Spellbinder side. Druid and Ritualist work, there’s no doubt about it with a hard-hitting Upheaval to build around. Spellbinder gets screwed here, but if you look at what it is doing, the set is trying to go Aether/Lightning with the IEE mods, Arcane Will, Spectral Binding and WPS mods. So maybe those things should be buffed like you suggested? :thinking:

Do you have any GTs? I would like to see some examples of what didn’t work. I have an Aether/Vitality Upheaval Ritualist and that has some Upheaval problems, but it’s mostly because of lack of really high OA and Spectral Wrath application wonkiness sometimes.

You wouldn’t as a Ritualist. As I mentioned above, maybe craft it to work with WPS on a Spellbinder which would need those WPS. Maybe your buff arguments would work then. :man_shrugging:

If I was playing WPS Spellbinder then I’m fine with the mods and conversions of Soul Harvest. I guess I just have different end goals and building technique (but don’t we all!)…

Same here, I’m arguing that it’s fine and might benefit from some slight buffs on the set bonuses because I don’t think the set needs drastic changes. I don’t like what they’re “cooking” here…

Most same people do that; it’s very taxing on the brain to follow your arguments with the way you format yer shit, bro.

3 Likes

aside from the spectral binding mod suggesting lightning necro i’m kinda always convinced these types are/were targeted to be somehow against binder and the og notion of aether binder’s strength

wasn’t asking you or for your input, the block button is right there if your brain is not up to the strain, you wont have to read or even see it.
otherwise i suggest you cease with your pointless grammar attacks and actually for once stay to what’s being talked about
i’m sure as sht not gonna spend extra effort improving my formatting for your convenience