[Feedback] The Great Ranged Balance Discussion

Just a reminder Ranged Expertise doesn’t boost your AS in Grim Tools for 2-handers. You can pull points back and see it doesn’t change. Nevertheless, it’s true that in the linked build AS is not optimized and sacrificed for fluff when you can get ~50% more without temp buffs on this build with items, components, devotions


Yes, please, we have enough of him in Russian community.
His builds are awful and they’re not min-maxed at all. They’re just for taking turtle-scales-dryad-bat one more time.


yep, forgot about it, but still 136% is a joke

can be said about all his builds. He records 1 SR run using the same devo route on every single build. He simple abuses everything which is wrong about SR build metric.

So please, leave horrors of grimpendium alone. I highly recommend to never use that site for build searching.


Good to know it’s a common knowledge because I’ve found about it recently and never read about that in any build description.

I don’t have a good intuition of what’s the relation about Cruci time and power but for me it’s motivating to test the build with more attack speed and maybe 2 x -15% Phys Res to Devouring Swarm from a conduit and Korvan Casque because I like the yellow PS and Inquisitor Seal. The problem is it’s just a poor’s man version of Lightning Raka’Jax Vindicator (or maybe another weapon but Raka’Jax seems to be the most similar).

Потому что я не делаю билды под горнило, мне всё равно какое там время будет.

Here’s 5:45 but I do have some crazy gear so count it at your own discretion Grim Tools
Not sure how close it is to perfect run because I don’t look at the mutators or know optimal strategy.
The hardest opponent was Iceclaw hiding itself behind a column during a whole wave (3:10) and wasted a lot of my time.
I didn’t make many attempts due to GDStash constantly resetting my devotions / unbinding procs.
Mamba says it’s been fixed in the latest version. 5:30 seems to be in reach.



Its a caster pistol without any of the caster stats while having lower % damage than daggers and scepters. It looks like a joke. Anderos at least needs cast speed and cdr to be a worthy competitor


This is surprisingly decent results, thanks for posting! I probably let my ABB is not spam AA bias get in the way. I’d selfishly still love to see some other AA attack support added to make these more flexible as the only cold pistol, but for now I’ll mark them as passing

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I had an idea with the Morguul gun and its recent buffs : https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkw9adN

It’s surprisingly good, I wonder if it’s due to the OPness of Demonslayer but damn is it smooth in SR, I could go up to SR85 without resorting to that stupid camera trick.

Here the .gdc if someone wants to run it in crucible or just feel the glory of shooting knives with guns : https://filebin.net/fd7i6ykpscp32evk

Also thanks to Valinov and Avyctes for teaching me Direwolf is not for guns.

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I have Pierce Cadence Tactician with this weapon https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gArvyZ
It has 100% WPS, capped CC resist (except disrupt and leech), high physical resist and adcth to counter Anguish proc. Even with that -25% damage proc it can still crit to 300k (highest crucible crit is 800k).

Build can reliably finish Gladiator 170, but once again time is not impressive (8m+) as I have bad piloting skill on Crucible. Compared to SR this build can finish SR80 deathless quickly and with 6m+ time left over. Guess it my build habits to be as tanky as possible :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Just in case someone is interested how are new Morguls on Apostate with new MI medal.


According to author his best cruci was 6:30 and it can go lower if piloted by someone more experienced in speedruns, possibly to around 6:00.

Overall by modern standards it isn’t amazing, but it’s better than what you can expect out of concept like that (non-FS ranged). I think the reason it performs better in SR than Crucible is because like all non-FS ranged concepts it’s lacking in AoE regard, but because it’s vitality w/ inq seal it’s pretty durable for 1v1 SR bossroom fights.


Hmm, another beronath shard setup too, thanks for the link. Looks like adcth and devos are keeping him upright cause AoE clear still looks pretty poop in the videos?

I’ve been working on a dumb rah’zin hagarradian enforcer deceiver setup that pulls decent damage, but I can’t keep standing upright yet, as a non-ABB alternative for those guns. Really trying to push some of the proc based guns to see if they can carry the AoE need after confirming Runick is performing well.

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More or less. It’s vitality so ofc it would have some silly level of sustain. As for AoE author claims that Morgul procs are kind of a big deal when dealing with crowds and are instantly felt when applied. But I think he’s mistaken here and it’s actually Rattosh proc on top of that. The thing can hit like a truck if you convert it into single damage type, and BK set does help with that.

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Korvan Wyrm is one I tried out during testing and I did give feedback on it, so it may just be where Zantai wants it to be. My conclusion/opinion was that it’s okay for campaign but not challenge content. Also mentioned that clear speed seemed better with transmuted PS despite the weapon clearly being meant for un-transmuted PS, even after transmuted got nerfed. Part of the problem is this is a ranged weapon, but a lot of physical skills/abilities/whatever are close range. I tried an Archon and a Ritualist, and tried both transmuted and non-transmuted. The Ritualist seemed noticeably better, but that was largely due to converting multiple damage types to physical (both elemental and vitality). Both are about what one would expect, they do pretty well at clearing trash, but struggle against tough single targets (bosses, nemeses, whatever). Also may be worth noting I had better damage with Targo set than Ultos, the global conversion and higher physical damage seemed better than hard capping PS.
Archon: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YNn3Aa82
Ritualist: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RVvw9qzZ

Quillthrower, it’s been quite a while but I did try it out during testing as well, only tried one build though, a Dervish, and it’s been quite a while, like the last time Quillthrower was changed. I’ll try to get around to testing it on the current patch, but I’ve been a bit busy. Seemed to be in the same boat as Korvan Wyrm, good enough for campaign but not much more than that. The player scaled pets seemed to do most of the heavy lifting, with ABB being pretty lackluster.
Dervish: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/p25bgwBV

Note these could all use a little more minmaxing/adjustment, but I don’t think it would make them suddenly viable for challenge content.


As for Korvan Wyrm - check out this Conjurer: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62aAEob2
(points are incorrectly assigned in Occultist - pull from mastery to Curse of Frailty)

  • 187 AS unbuffed + 5 temporary AS buffs <- probably maxed out AS all the time

  • RR -> not only from Occultist but also 30% more on Devouring Swarm, 10% on Deathstalker, 10% on Ring (133 in total I think)

  • 2300% - 2500% Physical Damage

Cheesy greens I admit though but this is meme so allowed :wink: (we’re trying to make meme work)

For example your Ritualist has 135% AS, 1666% Phys, 50% RR less <- all these are multiplicative
Archon has ok %Phys Damage but again 125% AS and 64% RR less (don’t see Reduced Resistances but maybe I’m blind)

tldr Don’t lose faith in Korvan Wyrm :slight_smile: I have also similar Vindicator and Warder.
I’ll probably test in some time but for now I’m fighting with another memes.

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I think that you should post those Korvan Wyrm builds. Looks very good what you have. I would have not thought that it is possible.


I made a thread trying to figure out what support class would be the best Best support class for Korvan Wyrm Primal Strike
Since there were few replies I moved on to other builds but haven’t forgotten about it because I love the yellow lightnings and have sweet illusion prepared. It’s not certain if this will survive Crucible with my poor skills, maybe more life leech / Inquisitor Seal will be needed. But it has lots of life / Phys Res so maybe it won’t be too bad / need too many changes. By the way, the helm and shoulders used have ‘Korvan’ in their names which must be a wink from :zantai: to use it with Korvan Wyrm.

Cool pictures



I think that it will certainly do SR 65-66. I have piercing PS that can do SR 65-66. Both ranged and melee. Yours looks similar. Better in some things worse in others.


Ranged savagery that finally feels good to me, still in testing (I hate current devo tree and not completing spear) but very consistent SR75-76 with 7-8 minute timer left including a +aether res -attack speed run: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mmoa52

Single target is not great, but enough WPS and fully converted rattosh + aether corruption putting in work on trash to clear trash. ADCTH coming out of its ears so survivability is fine.

So, passthrough combined with huge ADCTH procs and a conduit to make it feel solid with decent overall damage. Will try some crucible runs but it feels like 6:00ish minutes to me with the meh single target and slow Alek kills.

edit: still feels horrible to be bum rushed though, as the arc issue means constantly retreating to try to funnel mobs into passthrough shot


Or do you? https://www.grimtools.com/calc/gZwwdJKZ