[Feedback] The Great Ranged Balance Discussion

I was thinking about having such build on my SSF poll list :open_mouth:


Dumb idea that just occurred to me. Has anyone considered pairing these with Fire Strike riding off the recent Saboteur support? Could be improved but something like this.


Haven’t tried yet, my dumb rahzin deceiver setup with them doesn’t cut the mustard though. Skills are light but probably has potential!

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Not dumb; that looks pretty good (though you never really know until you test), and infiltrator ends up better as semi-caster rather than full-blown AA.

Perhaps you won’t need so many points into ABB as FS + x2 voids might be sufficient AoE

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Tried out dual deathdealer’s finally


Single target damage very nice for pistols, around a 13 second dummy kill without pets helping. But usual AoE concerns and only Smite as a passthrough, although a big one. Tried a bunch of devo paths including current, a reach for Oleron (too big of trade off), Falcon (2 second cooldown on falcon these days is a bummer, but tier 1) and just more stats as I’m stretched thin on D and resist overcaps. It can definitely do SR75-76, imagine it will suck butts in crucible.

Will try with 1 DD + viper (and then try LoE devo) and 1 DD with watcher of erulan this weekend. I’m on the fence of calling these good enough because of single target, but it’s still a frustrating experience when dealing with packs or bosses with adds. Where the extra damage in 1.1.8(.1) + grabbing korvaak worked well to push elgoloth savagery over the edge, not really seeing that kind of option on the physical path. Maybe trying to swipe enough points for physical judgment? Could also just be asking for too much

edit: shield version is poop. not enough tank to make up for considerable damage drop

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Well, @Crittrain is running mid 5s crucibles this morning, so I think my calibration on AoE has been distorted. Gonna call DD’s passing thread standards!

This is just neutral mutators really , enough practice and luck itd be faster.
I enjoy gunner oppressor alot, always fun.

I should not test late at night

Warlord dual DD also appears to perform well. Near straight class swap with a few gear changes and no devo change also feels strong, @Crittrain currently testing

I retract DD + erulan concerns too as I left half my shit unbound. There is a damage drop but not huge, feels like a reasonable tradeoff of small damage for small tank https://www.grimtools.com/calc/dVbm0Bz2

Good pistol. Builds do need some well rolled greens though for resists

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Keeping on the Oppressor kick, vitality RF with gargabol (known good) and morguul’s mortality (maybe decent??)


DA around 2370 in game, rips through SR75 no problem. Tried no pot ravager of minds for giggles and got him down to 1/3rd first time before I got bonked. Kuba goes down reasonably well and Zan metls do to smite.

Despite necro WPS being slow for gun animations, oppressor solidifying itself as my favorite gunner base. Aether, physical, vit builds all feel solid and bring different play feel. Smite on pistols just runs circles around other ranged WPS.

Spite says hi!


*Cough in Desolator


Right, and Rancor, Bloodborer, Shadow Queen medal, countless examples actually… There’s no reason for Wrathguard not to have an actual identity


Gave stronghold set another try on paladin/RF based, and results were unsatisfying (granted, an SR85 test, but crashed pretty hard on first level and kuba or grava fights. disengage rune would help, need lots of kiting). Procs and WPS should carry this but damage felt mediocre even with fire procs galore. Will test more tomorrow in more practical SR75. Would be surprised if it was sub 6 crucible, but it’s also gun and board so hey


So, has anyone have any ideas on Mythical Soullance? It has attack speed and CDR, and I was thinking if ranged vit PS Ritualist or Conjurer would be possible with it? Not in its current form of course. But maybe change +4 to Siphon to +2 to Shaman? Right now the only sensible weapon for vit PS is Wildblood Crusher, and it’s definitely not an OP archetype as far as community feedback goes.

Yeah I’ve mostly avoided it due to the skill bonuses, but was going to try to plug it into vit oppressor to see how much work the proc puts in. The cooldown is interesting for dying god or abom might uptime.

Oppressor, eh? Maybe vit RF + Guardians for extra AoE would also be interesting. A lot of their damage will remain acid though…

Have you tried it combo with gladiator belt for pure physical dmg that ignore armor? Oppressor can do physical build though.

Not with that rifle. Physical oppressor with dual deathdealer is good though, so definitely has potential.

Moved Morguul to + based off of vitality RF testing. Doesn’t have a place on firestrike but provides a good secondary on RF to stack additional RR. Updated Elgoloth to + since I missed that earlier.

Going to try that grim dawn season thingie so my testing will be on hold until I get bored of leveling fresh again. Struggling to find anything on paladin that can push enough flat damage so far, but have a couple fire builds to try still.

I wanted to take a break from pets and help out with the pew-pew discussion.

Dreadscorcher Sorcerer Testing

I agree that trying it as anything outside of Fire Strike would be obsoleted by Vortex of Souls, and being a 2H rifle means that you have very little options for WPS, so instead, I tried beefing up the Fire Strike aspect of it as much as possible - including 22/12 Static Strike - and see if it could be used as some sort of mini Primal Strike.

Good parts of this build:

  • 190% base attack speed with Ghoul to help if things go sideways.

  • Mirror + Fateweaver’s Mantle + Fateweaver Leggings + Serenity means that you can take a lot of punishment at once before you have to disengage.

  • Few other buttons you have to manage (basically making sure RR is constantly applied) that would interrupt you from shooting.

  • Max Fire Strike crit without Crucible buffs or SR souls = 170K (I don’t know if this damage is good or not).

Bad things about this build:

  • Very little AoE - I was hoping that fully converted Imp bound to Fire Strike would make a tremendous amount of pools simultaneously, but outside of that and Spear, there’s nothing to help in the AoE department.

  • Static Strike only has 80% chance of activating, so you have a very frustrating streak of low damage if it doesn’t activate.

  • Roughly 15s Mad Queen kill time :frowning_face:

  • Definitely not good enough for Crucible or high SR.

  • Makes no sense to use it as a Purifier when you have Fire or Lightning guns to use; Defiler is using Gargobol guns all the way, and any other combo is obsoleted by Vortex of Souls.

I’m not exactly the greatest with non-pet builds, but I know the sort of benchmarks people like, and I really doubt people can push this concept further, especially as if you depart from Sorcerer, you use the nice benefits from taking Arcanist, such as a truckload of Attack Speed, flat damage, Mirror, Nullification, and so on.

Devotion route could be looked at, but the only global conversion we have is Fire to Aether, and outside of Imp it’d be hard to find a route that gives enough flat damage while also accounting for RR and general stats. Without a baked-in WPS, this weapon is really inferior to Rutnik’s MI guns.


Different weapon, different post.

Sandspitter Tactician Test

Here I was, thinking I was doing something original, and it looks like people had done Havoc Tacticians better. I was doing a similar concept - stack as much Pierce damage as possible, as the Crimson Claws converts the damage to Physical, bypassing Armor.

Maybe someone more familiar with ranged Crucible can try it out. It’s entirely possible to get ~7 minutes, but only if you really focus on maximum enemy shredding. Thanks to this thread, I found that Blind Fury bound to Storm Box is really good. Outside of that, it looks like Havocs do the job better…