[Feedback] The Great Ranged Balance Discussion

Nice, I can see if I can do something with it

@eardianm I just made SR 80 with build similar as the one I posted but with suboptimal kaisan amulet.
Trash mobs and random swarming heros was more dangerous than nemesis

That’\s the GT: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4Vxkm0b2

It’s decent build but not top tier.

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thanks very similar.
I do not expect ranged single target skill be top tier and I do not mind, I just wanna see if contribution can be made to make ranged better. decent good for me because i am decent player haha

Got this built and tested as listed above to start. This is miles better than previous version, SR75-76 felt good other than aetherbutt snake briefly ruining my day. Damage is very peaky considering ring procs and DA bonuses but can definitely nuke when it lines up. AS was around 185 so potential to go different rings with attack speed if you’re looking for consistency instead.

Definitely going to continuing tweaking this. May be reasonable ranged savagery finally (although not expecting sub 5 results or anything super great in crucible)

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we are getting towards greatness? :wink:

Hi guys I made some tests with my vindicator you can read result here [] Zavageryyy - Elgoloth Ranged Vindicator (SR80)

Elgoloth cross bow builds


here is a vindicator with desolator rifle [] MIra - Desolator Savagery Vindicator (SR80) very good aoe but not good single targets

EDIT: Here is idea with pierce savagery with silverbolt https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4ZDmw91N

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Moved elgoloth to +, SR80 and 90 clears now, it’s a single target pew pew machine that some aoe focus can still cover for in deep SR. Subpar speed in crucible but I kinda like the very different playstyle now


Revisited Oathbearer after recent small buff. Tried SR80 just to really stress it as this has been about the tankiest build I play. Somehow rolled neutral mutators, yay!

Original layout, SR set, Watcher shield - still feels the best. SR80 can easily be a 0 death affair and will see how high it can push this weekend. Things die very very slowly, but you just camp out in seal and phys res and armor and ridiculous CC resists and not care. Will update with GT when I remake because I forgot to save updated listing

Dual wield attempt - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2mmmQm2 - You gain last RF charge, 12% more damage on RF, but lose capped attack speed, smite bonus, flat damage on safeguard (make up some dumping into rebuke) and some defense. Probably kills slightly quicker but not nearly as much difference as you’d expect. Starts to run into some trouble in SR80 range if you get swarmed. Doesn’t feel worth the tradeoff to me from either stats or thematically

Dual wield damage attempt - https://www.grimtools.com/calc/pZrmmb1V - dropping SR set and grabbing all the flat pierce. Resists stay manageable, but defense definitely takes a hit. Does allow for much better cunning dump with lower phys requirements on armor. Folded extremely quickly in the SR80 level. This is probably the approach if you’re going for faster SR75 but requires more paying attention. Single target kill speed is still pretty meh but faster than above options.

Will try one last config with the latter damage focus and erulan/wrathguard this weekend to see if there is a happier balance on that side.

All versions AoE feels awful. May be expected you need to put more points into WoP or runes or something to pull AoE (I suppose even max horn is worth trying), but already low weapon damage would also suffer to reach for a fleshed out support skill unless horn works. Kept devos the same on all. May be a niche option to reach for something like magi and see if abusing the full conversion can net the needed AoE.

edit: damage gear w/ wrathguard https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lV7mmvON
maybe slightly better damage than SR set? doesn’t feel noticeable, but it’s also a slow but extremely safe SR75-76 grind. 17/12 buffed horn is okay as extra trash clear but the cooldown is a bummer

final test will be with crazy go nuts converted devos this weekend. Otherwise maybe it’s better on the solider side, if you can find enough points for cadence?


Some tests with ranged retaliation with Sandspitter Green MI gun.
basically used to convert elemental (retaliation) damage to physical.
Shield and shoulders is not optimal (these were the best I got) but still cleans SR80 very easily. AoE is a problem though, so if there is arcane in pack, you need to somehow isolate it - or you are basically dead.

My headache with this gun is the increased internal trauma duration, how are you supposed to build around that? :confused:

Don’t know if Z would weigh in here, but my assumption is RF was meant to be able to be built anywhere from ignoring retal to max retal ala your sandspitter build. E.g. rutnick now carries no retal RF very well. Hadn’t honestly thought of reaching for elemental retal and pumping that because I’m weirdly biased against retal applied to attack, something about 3 points in RF and doing big damage annoys me :scorv:

That pierce savagery looks rly juicy! Could combine big damage numbers with quite some AOE. Someone should try that!
Maybe even Primal Strike could be quite interesting?

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Yes, ranged pierce in particular has very poor aoe, specially with non-passing through weapon. Sure Azkara devotion and blind assassin… but c’mon they are still kinda crap.

Primal strike is most likely better for pierce but you need to savagery charges for OA etc I think and using two ranged abilities is very wonky, for me at least.

That clonkyness can easily b scripted away :slight_smile:

I dont use scripts :slight_smile:

I have ranged pierce PS using Ugdenbog Boltthrower and it can almost do SR 80. Can’t kill Reaper and has problems with Alex. It is also slow in SR 80.

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https://www.grimtools.com/calc/qNY1qPXN I plan on trying something like this someday; I tried to make sure AoE would be reasonable (but maybe struggles to survive against single target bosses). Just the medal would be a nuisance to acquire. I’m not fond of the SR set, but it is surprising non-dw is actually not that further behind.

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Oooh, missed that chest option.

The other oddity @Monceaux tested and I’m seeing as well, watcher of erulan is the better shield option for paladin. In practice the smite mod appears to carry over the additional base flat on wrathguard, with erulan being better defensively to boot.

I was totally unimpressed with living shadows when I tried them a year or so ago the first time I played with oathbearer. Didn’t seem helpful for AoE, and you don’t actually need the sustain. Will be curious on your thoughts how they play out if this is made and/or will try your devo route this weekend.


I think this is Zantai’s will, not to make faction gear (like Wrathguard) end-game material, but rather a mean to acquire, to progress towards this end-game stuff such as Watcher of Erulan, a thought confirmed by the 1.1.8 buff that gave a portion of Erulan’s phys resistance to Wrathguard.
I wouldn’t bother with Wrathguard unless one makes a levelling guide for the gun&board archetype, it’s just the toy version of Erulan.


That sounds weird to me. However, I went for less auto-attack and more proc/devotion damage with high OA/crit, possibly wrathguard does more for my build. The stats of Unknown Soldier are the main attraction, the proc just gives some extra life steal which I need.

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