[Feedback] Weaker Relics

There were some relics that were already suffering before AoM was out and not many complained since they were the best we had at the time.
Now with AoM’s release, these relics don’t exactly have any reason to exist besides taking up resources for crafting

Since there are quite a few relics. I am going to try my best to keep it short for each relic so that this the entire thing is actually readable and doesn’t end up as a boring wall of text.

A. Class Specific Relics-

1. Bane - https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8219

[spoiler]
Nothing much to say here the entire relic is just really bad

Pros-

-Flat OA
-Flat Fire Damage

Cons-

-Cast Speed value on it feels weak considering Ignaffar’s Combustion has both Cast Speed and Attack Speed bonuses
-It activates of crits and has a ridiculously high CD

Proposed Changes-

-Change bonus to Total Speed
-Add 5-6% Crit Damage bonus
-Reduce CD on proc to 1 second and change activation to “25% Chance on Attack”[/spoiler]

2. Nemesis- https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1497

[spoiler]
I’d like to say that Dual-wield Cold builds would never prefer this relic unless the entire relic is re-done. So what I suggest has nothing to do with those builds but rather has to do with non-Dual Wield Nightblades

The relic was bad before the expac but with the addition of Nidalla’s Outbreak going for Nemesis isn’t preferred at all since Nidalla’s relic’s skill is superior at procing devotions and the relic itself has much better stats and has COLD BONUSES

Pros-
-Racial Damage to our Notched Bone Brothers :wink:
-Total Speed
-Flat Cunning
-Flat Cold Damage

Cons-
-Granted Skill is very underwhelming

Proposed Changes-
-Add 8-10% reduced Energy Cost
-Nemesis Pet should apply stackable -10% Cold/Pierce RR with its attacks[/spoiler]

3. Annihilation- https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1507

[spoiler]sigh
Yeah, this relic. Not going to talk about the granted skill at all. I think the stats on the relic itself should be bumped

Pros-
-Granted Skill isn’t half bad
-Spirit and Cunning Bonuses
-Flat Fire Damage bonus

Cons-
-Falls short when being compared to Korvaak’s Deception and Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm

Proposed Changes-

  • 6-7% total speed making it useful for auto-attackers or % weapon damage casters
    -5-6% Crit Damage bonus
    -8-10% Reduced Energy Cost[/spoiler]

4. Vengeance- https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8217

Pros-
-Stat wise the relic can give you a boner. Solid in defenses, no complaints

Cons-
-Skill is very, very bad and has zero practical use

Proposed Changes-
-Change activation to “20% On-Hit” (I assume this means ranged attacks would make it proc as well, cause that is what I want)
-Increase radius to 7-9 meter radius
-Replace “%Chance to Slow Target” with “Freeze Target for 3 seconds”
-Reduce Cooldown to 1 second

NOTE:
No the above changes aren’t outlandish, the relic’s skill is really really bad


5. Iskndara’s Balance-
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1515[spoiler]

Pros-
-Decent stats overall but would like to propose some changes

Cons-
Let me be blunt on this one. No caster would ever use it on an optimal build anymore. And you can quote me on that and we all know the reason.

Proposed Changes-
-Change %Bonus to Cast Speed to Total Speed
-Replace %Bonus of Fire and Cold with %bonus to Elemental
-The granted skill seems to be only good for Fire and Cold builds. Add in their third brother Lightning and make it work with Elemental completely (in-line with Iskandra’s Set and IEE’s elemental theme)
-The granted skill is meant to work only with an off-hand and in my opinion if this stays this way then this relic would never get to shine at all.
So I say adjust the values and remove weapon limitation. [/spoiler]

B.Non-Class Relics-

1. Reckoning-https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1500

[spoiler]
Pros-
-Good stats for Retaliation builds

Cons-
-Granted skill is underwhelming

Proposed Changes-
Retaliation rarely has focused damage and usually has its damage types all over the place
So rather than doing 10% Physical RR it should 10% All RR. It should still be stackable so don’t change it to 10 reduced enemy resistance
Even with this change not every Retaliation build would consider it but it will become a good competitor against Citadel and Avenger[/spoiler]

2. Oblivion- https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/1505

[spoiler]Going to be perfectly honest with this one. This relic is in a odd place, it looks good to me but when I use it on a build I usually end up replacing it with some other relic.
This relic seems to be an odd ball it seems to have good stats that other chaos relics should have had.
-For instance similar to Agrivix’s malice we should have had an Occultist/Inquisitor/Demo relic with Chthonian Racial Damage but for some reason it was placed on this relic.
-Similar to the Necro relic Impurity’s flat aether damage, there should’ve been flat Chaos Damage placed on some Occultist relic but it is found on this relic
-The fumble chances/impaired aim chance on that skill seem solid and I’d say a lot of melee builds would kill for those and yet it was placed on a relic that not many builds can use
So my point is the biggest problem with this relic is that it’s hogging the stats of other relics and doesn’t have much reason to exist.

I could be wrong about Oblivion though and maybe it does have some use on builds. But I personally cannot see any at the same time despite considering it a “not so bad” relic I can’t think of any fixes. So I leave this one up-to the community [/spoiler]

Annihilation doesn’t have a flat cold bonus.

Nice thread.

The only way to fix Annihilation is to make it annihilate itself. Top 3 troll item worthy.

Honestly, I never saw that any build are used oblivion relic.

Even before solael’s decimation wes a hundred times better; now, than we got an eldrich pact oblivion has a zero chance to live.

HOWEVER we still lack a good chaos based relic, and now I see this changes to this relic:

> add +1 to all skills to Occu or Inq or Demo
> boost flat and % or chaos damage (seriously, +65% looking as joke)
> change AS to TS
> make prock triggered on attack/on crit (if on crit - reduce recharging time)

Well, now I’m sad because I was in the middle of typing a long post and it got screwed over so here’s a short go-over on everything I was going to say:

Nemesis: Increase Pierce % and probably Pierce damage on granted skill so it’s better for Pierce builds as they only have it, Vengeance and Carnage. +1 to Pierce/Cold RR, either that or consider replacing reduced DA with -DA so it can stack with things like Biting Cold/Flashbang/Blindside that provide way more.

Annihilation: +1 to proposed changes.

Vengeance: Stats are solid, helps Infiltrators/Mage Hunters be a bit more sturdy. Granted skill sucks on paper - 20% chance on melee hits received every 3 seconds to do ~300 Pierce/Cold damage in a radius? Compare it to Avenger which is better in method of proccing, cooldown and damage done.

Iskandra’s Balance: Only ever used this pre-expansion on my Fire CT Sorcerer because of the flat Fire (made better by Cold->Fire conversion). Can’t think of many weapon-based caster abilities besides CT, PB and FW (and who’s making a Fire/Cold FW build with an off-hand :p) so other builds would get less of a buff from it, maybe taking the weapon restriction off is a good thing or changing it to sceptre/dagger or replacing flat damage with something really good that non-weapon-based builds like PRM can use. Like the idea of adding in Lightning so it’s Elemental-themed instead of Fire/Cold themed though.

Can’t/don’t want to comment on Bane/Reckoning/Oblivion.

Safarel, did you forget or didn’t you see the disscussion in our community forum on my experimental 2h battle mage chaos build using this relic?

Agree, the Oblivion needs some love.

Iscandra proc is actualy realy good for burning/frostburn build.

Iskandra’s Balance - I like the idea to remove weapon limitation and make the relic to boost and perform elemental damage. These reasons prevented me from using the relic when planning some build concepts.

Yeap, didn’t see.
However, oblivion requires a buff anyway.

Yes, it would be nice the relic to be buffed and to be used in builds.

Fixed it

-I like how you think but they’d need to axe one of the Inquisitor/Occultist relics.

-All 3 Occultist relics look good to me. So I’d say we can axe Bane relic, it’d also make sense to axe Bane since currently all three Inquisitor relics are Elemental focused and none of them focuses on Chaos.

-It’d also add diversity to Chaos builds for those who don’t want to pick Occultist

What are the other two?

LOL at loosing text

Nemesis: RR is in-line with Inquisitor relic providing us the stat which is why I suggested it.
DA reduction on the other hand even if it’s stackable would be very inferior as a stat to RR imo. Unless we’re talking about -20% DA reduction :stuck_out_tongue:

Never meant to imply the proc is bad. But with Eternity as its competition its about time that weapon restriction was removed from it. It’d also help those who want to build Elemental Based Arcanists

I read both of those in Morgan Freeman’s voice. Couldn’t even remember what Obama sounds like :eek:

Demolitionist has 3 relics.

  • Ulzuin pyroclasm : good stats and a usefull proc, all demo based builds, ranged melee caster, can use it
  • Annihilation : better stats than ulzuin pyroclasm ? not really and the meteor is very slow. Using this relic is loosing a great proc.
  • Koorvak deception : great stats, usefull for a pyromancer, but the abillty is limited to only melee toons :frowning: Why ?

So a demo will prefer the ulzuin pyroclasm relic.

In fact the demo has only one relic to play.

Ooh ooh I know this one.

  1. Start over and just redesign the whole thing :rolleyes:
  2. Fairly large boost to all stats, make skill a proc, maybe? Honestly this will probably fall flat on its face too, so I would recommend going with option 1.

Ulzuin’s pyroclasm stats are quite poor in fact. %cast speed isn’t that useful for most builds that would prefer Ulzuin’s Pyroclasm over something else. %fire resist on a fire build is usually not an issue. No %electrocute for some reason. If not the proc it would had been a pretty meh relic.

Annihilation - Meteor is super strong, but relic stats are poor and moreover do not suit the Meteor. You’d think of using Meteor on a cdr caster, while flat damage implies using it for 1h autoattack builds.

Korvaak’s Deception - mobility skill and super stats, overall the best relic for anything demo-based but ranged fire strike builds.

I disagree with this being the ‘best’ relic for all demo builds bar ranged. I know best is subjective but as I see it, a lot of the casters, especially sorcs, could afford not having the stats and the proc and I would rather use pyroclasm over deception for the proc, though eternity is best for sorcs but that’s another story.

Going to type out my thoughts in no specific order, and with no organization at all whatsoever. Be prepared for verbal diarrhoea.

  1. YES TO MARKOVIAN. In addition to bleed damage, I suggest adding some OA in there as well. It’s extremely difficult to achieve a healthy level of OA when designing a build around it.

  2. Agree that wyrmborn needs werk. What could potentially be useful is X% fire --> lightning conversion to BWC instead of its proc.

  3. Deathmarked chestpiece - Don’t even get me started on dis motherfucker rite here.

  4. Can’t really comment on the rest as I have yet to test them out extensively. However, I’d like to request for more acid --> phys conversion, or for phys --> acid conversion.

  5. Oblivion - Currently, the best chaos relic IMO is ignaffar’s, and currently, the all chaos build worth doing MUST include the inquisitor to attain a respectable level of chaos RR. Build diversity is thus sorely restricted (i.e. my dream of making a doombolt + chaos AAR 'lock is but a dream). Possible solution: Add a healthy amount of chaos RR to the relic itself, and reduce some of its base stats.

  6. Nemesis - As far as crucy goes, it’s garbage. Can’t comment for MC.

  7. Devotions - pretty much spot on. Also like to suggest some improvements to be made to behemoth and freaken’ tempest. They need it badly. ‘I’m super cereal’ - Algore

You’re in the wrong thread :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll fix that. :stuck_out_tongue: