Dont different burn effects stack?like oathkeepers judgement effects and the guardians
Im rly torn here,i dont know if the cast time from demo helps as im kinda thinking this is more of a burn build,speed doesnt affect that i asume?so…kinda feeling paladin more atm
they do, but that’s gonna be pretty limited dmg/utility overall unless you make a massive investment towards it
and then you could apply the same reasoning to demolitionist too with bwc or nado etc
FoI is most definitely not a burn build, it’s a flat dmg spammer, just like AAR etc
I see,so in that case going purifier would proly be best?with the cast speed and flat dmg from flame touch
dmg wise purifier is probably slightly more dmg, even regardless of the cast speed from vindictive flame/assuming you manage max speed as paladin
this would be the baseline difference as i see it
*obviously skill points doesnt’ take into account extra or freed up points from gear, but it’s a rough sketch of what you’d get and have to use actives and points wise
so the “main” question, imo, when it comes to weighing most demolitionist inclusions, is, “do i want mines”/the actives in Demo?
FoI usually gets pretty chonky, since it can benefit from global lifesteal while several items grant it direct lifesteal on top. Adding Fumble natively also means your dealing with extra defence layer. Inquis Seal further improves your tankiness.
the stat differnces aren’t huge, same’ish OA; Demo gives bit more DA but Oath gives you more HP to compensate(and increasd heal effect), blast shield gives absorb, but so can ascension + resilience a bit.
So largely the difference, cast speed aside, is the extra movement skill and passive RR, vs Demo’s mines, and maybe BWC casting once in a while
both classes gonna be able to proc devotions great, Oath will do it more passively since you can assign to Empys and wont need to wait for mine/seal cast to proc, that’s mainly it, one is more passive one is more active i think
thanks for all the imput,you pretty much convinced me for paladin,i dont feel like playing a piano and paladin also leaves more interesting build options open if i feel like swaping
I’ve done it on Purifier.
IMO there’s plenty of good support for Fire FoI, it’s just harder to put together than, say, Chaos FoI cause there’s no set for it, you have to put it together yourself and it takes some greens to do so.
239 DA shred. Still gets the OA in the 2800s.
You can easily reshuffle the devos for more OA if you find that concerning. Takes all of about 30 s.
And you can obviously get better affixes on the greens, this is just the best I wound up with. I wouldn’t get too fixated on the numbers. From my testing it’s a 4 out of 5 SR75-80 runner.
that’s pretty impressive with 90’ish% hit chance 50% of the time 
Well, let’s say you have 90 % hit chance all of the time. So you’re 10 % total damage down. Ok. You miss out on crit. Ok. There are no on-crit devos used, so that’s not a concern. You miss out on the crit damage, which FoI has A LOT of, sure. But all that matters at the end of the day is: do you have enough damage to kill stuff fast enough and leech back enough health? This does. Doesn’t matter if it gets there through crit or just flat damage, as long as it gets there.
Because it’s a non-set build you can shift a lot of pieces around. I took an entirely defensive armor cause I found the lack of HP and phys res concerning. You can easily shift more into offense to reap the benefits of all that crit damage FoI has. I always lean towards survivability in SR more than all out aggro, but that’s personal preference.
that’s the point, losing 10% base dmg is quite a lot
nvm the crit, just base hit’s being lost 10% is actually fairly impactful, “usually”, more so when lifesteal is then involved
it gets an even more stark contrast in fights where it suddenly more impactful like celestial/ravager etc, the difference vs 90% hit chance vs 100, is pretty huge there, (even if that OA is super hard to get for most builds)
I don’t make a habit of fighting Celestials so that’s a metric I don’t take into account on my builds.
I also haven’t done my second round of testing for this build yet so it’s possible I’ll shift some stuff around anyway. This was just what worked for me in, what was it, 9.6, 9.5 maybe?
Anyway, like I said you can retool it for whatever your preference is because the non-set nature makes it more flexible. Even if you leave all the greens as they are, reshuffling the devos can get you the OA you’re after, if you’re ok with losing a chunk of health:
Not sure how the energy sustain on that would be though. Gains Viper but loses Scythe and Harp, which if I recall were pretty important.
didn’t mean it like that,/not saying this build is about fighting celestials
i used it as an example where 10% hit rating difference “shows” even more is all
Sure I get it, I’m just putting the build in context. I didn’t see a reason to sweat the OA because the build was working fine for the content I use it in, which is SR75-80. I’m sure plenty of my builds can be improved, I just generally don’t bother doing so unless the build struggles.
I’d be tempted to also look at Arcanist and the Mageslayer set. You might loose some of the RR on tough bosses where OFF might not stick, but this mace could offset some of that. But OFF = fun times imho.
Also, as alluded to…maxed FoI is really demanding for energy, so even with all the skill reduction savings, you will need ~150+ to avoid potting like crazy in longer fights.
Here is an example of Magehunter Fire FoI with generic fire devo path. Blank medal for whatever bonuses desired.
There is also the possible devo path of getting Time Dilation for the OFF “double-tap” which can make a difference on some of the more resistant monsters. As well as a little more use out of Mirror.
(Maybe this has been done already…I didn’t look).
Damnit, forgot the core tenets of arguments: 1) question the base assumption, 2) get defensive, 3) resort to personal attacks. Jumped straight to 2. So time for course correction.
Where are you even pulling that number from? If GT is to be believed at SR80 the vast, vast, vast majority of enemies has a DA of under 2500. You hit that 100 % of the time even with the base 2500 OA. You sure as shit crit that with the DA shred. There are exceptions like Iron Maiden, who has very high DA, and Fabius who shreds OA, but I haven’t found much that goes anywhere beyond 2500 DA. And that’s SR80. For your standard 75-76 having 2600 ish OA is perfectly fine.
you forgot to increase monster level didn’t you? 
Yup! But still, increasing it to 112 gets me enemies at around 2655 DA at SR80. And you’re working with 2700 at SR75.
