I’m currently playing a Bone harvest Deathknight (halfway through elite, maybe not the fastest clear speed but pretty good and really fun to play).
And I was wondering which one of either Forcewave or Bone harvest would you choose or do you prefer and why.
I’m asking this because those two skills are pretty similar and seem to fit the same role, with but one major difference : the transmuter
First, let’s review those 2 skills :
the two are “wave” type skills (with speed modified by casting speed)
the AOE travelled is pretty similar, forcewave got better range (12m for forcewave versus 9m for Bone Harvest, both at max range) but Bone harvest got larger AOE because of its “cone” shape
both got similar cooldown, 2.8s for Forcewave, 3s for Bone Harvest
you can get them pretty early, forcewave a little earlier than bone harvest (lvl 1 to 25 whereas bone harvest goes from level 5 to 32)
Bone harvest seems to do more damage than Forcewave (stats for grimtools)
A lvl 1 forcewave does 75% WD + 10-18 physical
A lvl 1 bone harvest does 115% WD + 10 pierce +18 vitality +18 cold
A level 16 forcewave does 200% WD + 184-243 physical
A level 16 bone harvest does 250% WD + 115 pierce + 204 vitality + 204 cold
So for now, pretty similar skills, forcewave having better range, lower cooldown, and lower damage but both are a close catch.
The transmuter is what set them apart :
Forcewave transmuter sacrifice damage for cooldown (having no cooldown it can then be used as main damaging skill)
Bone harvest transmuter sacrifice range for damage (with 100% conversion phys to cold)
both are to be used with 2 hand weapon
I’d say that Forcewave got the best transmuter there, because you still get more than correct damage (as we can see with all those powerhouse forcewave builds) with no cooldown and great range.
Whereas Bone harvest got a little more damage with same CD, poor AOE (this 6m range AOE seems really tiny compared to the original 9m) and a shitty phys to cold conversion.
I see where the cold conversion come, but let’s face it, nothing support it in the necromancer build.
And other classes that might support this (nightblade for example) aren’t great with two handed weapons (And I’ve yet to see a cold set with necro modifier). Aether or vitality might have been more suited there or no conversion at all.
That said, I’m a big fan of Bone Harvest because it looks so damn cool and I’d like to continue using it to the end of ultimate.
So what are your thoughts on the subject ? And what would you do to give it its niche in ultimate ? (any advice for doing it with build twinking is welcomed too)
I admit I haven’t used Bone harvest on ultimate yet, but I fear it will lack power and I’ll have to abandon it to go blitz krieg aether or cadence as all the deathknights builds I see don’t have Bone harvest in their skills.
Forcewave has pretty crazy levels of support, with excellent options for witchblade, death knight, tactician, and Commando. The premier 2H bone harvest build I’m familiar with is a Soulrend Reaper, but you can also try for a DW Deathguard Reaper or go vit with the Blood Knight set. I’d probably say that physical 2H forcewave is easier to gear, but Blood Knight is incredibly tanky and has great RR. Bone Harvest also has that Deadly Momentum-esque modifier, which is useful if it’s supplementing your autoattack.
It lacks in a few departments so it’s not endgame but certainly viable for campaign. Highest crit with bone harvest is 285k but I need to work on the critchance.
To Shenhulibu - that’s a nice idea but I don’t know if cold is the right way to make it work.
Cold is but a minor element in the necromancer’s tools and not supported at all by Soldier.
And your build got way more vitality bonuses than cold.
I think I’ll try the aether and/or vita road (without bone harvest transmuter) that are better supported by necromancer (I’m going aether right now with transmuted siphon souls and it rocks, in elite though…)
As I’ve said, I really dislike bone harvest transmuter, you lost 3m range and because of bone harvest’s cone shape you lost nearly half of the area without the transmuter.
AND to add salt on the injury you have to go with the phys to cold conversion that wreck aether and vita builds (or you have to nullify it by finding a pure aether or vita weapon with no phys damage part), I’m not sure the additional damage is worth it.
You lose half your area of effect, got a cold conversion that’s a net loss in damage for what … roughly 33% more damage ? That ain’t worth it in my mind.
To Xervous, I’m playing self-found for now, I don’t think I’ll get enough points to make both work.
Plus even if I do it, that’s 29 points (16/1/12) and another 29 points to make it work, where a single transmuted forcewave for 41 points (16/12/12 and 1) will be more efficient and easier to use.
Plus I’ll have to find gear that support both…
For now I’m going Aether (thanks to soulplitter, got the normal and empowered version, hope I’ll get the mythical version too) with Bone Harvest, Transmuted Soul siphon (Now, for aether build that’s a transmuter that rocks, same damage as vita, because you got more aether bonuses and triple duration YEAH plus the aether effect is cool) and cadence in between.
Imo, Bone Harvest is only good to go 1/0/12 or 1/1/12, using as a buffing skill only. A caster that somewhat relies on his weapon (WD is what I mean) could max the whole tree, or a cold reaper (which from what I’ve heard is kinda shit right now since it’s a total glass-cannon).
I would only max the whole Bone Harvest tree if I had spare points and the damage types matched or if I just went an appropriate build that buffs that particular skill, for example Bloodknight set. Bone Harvest does give you a huge chunk of damage, with a huge amount of WD, but there are other skills that deal the same or higher damage with a lower skill point cost (yeah I know you’re thinking about Devastation, but calm down, there are others too, for example Blitz, SS, War Cry… wait what?).
Forcewave is better in every aspect at this point. You can deal like 1/3 of Bone Harvest’s damage, but you can spam it, with 200% casting speed effectively having (maybe) even twice the damage of Bone Harvest.
i’d use forcewave and drop bone harvestr altogether as a deathknight. the class has good support for physical damage but basically nothing at all for cold (and fairly little for a vitality bone harvest without transmuter)
transmuted bone harvest is mostly useful for reaper builds (necro+nightblade). don’t think it makes much sense to use it in other build (maybe some exotic conversion builds). for a reaper, the reduced range is less of an issue since the 6 m range conveniently syncs up with the 6 m radius of veil of shadow. so everything you hit with your cold damage bone spikes is already debuffed by nights chill
Getting both forcewave and bone harvest is doable with octavius set and gladiator distinction. Not sure if you can get 16/1/12 on harvest while maxing forcewave tree vut pretty sure most endgame builds get 12 pts on soul harvest m
I hadn’t thought of the similar range between transmuted bone harvest and maxed veil of shadow range.
So the thing could be good with a 2 handed cold reaper… (too bad I choose soldier on my second class).
And you could mix it with Amarasta Blade Burst and transmuted Ring of steel (both skills work well with 2 handed weapon too)
that’s one hell of a rotation though.