shudder
I love the variability of builds in this game. Something for everyone.
Except me. 
Unless you:
Want to make a hybrid pet/DPS build.
Want to make an Aether melee.
Want to make a 2h Nightblade-mix. (Oh, you want to get good use out of Bane of the Winter King or Nightshade’s Reach? Haha, you’re silly! Silly person, you!)
Want to focus Cold.
Crate has work to do yet.
Well, yes, they do. Especially on the items front; at least to my estimation.
TQ got prodded for having too many items, but they did something in TQ that wasn’t done here: They tried to generalize a lot of items. In Grim Dawn items are a little too specific. Somewhere between overly specific and too general is the magic point. I’m fairly sure they’re trying to reach a balance.
That said, rare items are really cool in Grim Dawn (rare and magic affixes, that is).
Alright, I give up. How the hell do you get Flame Touched and/or Temper to 22/12 on a Commando?
EDIT: I seriously cannot do it without resorting to outright terrible gear choices. At this point it doesn’t matter that FT/Temper gives ungodly bonuses at 22/12 because there’s no good way to REACH them on the character that needs them.
Norzan pretty much said what i had to. Temper Commando is in no way lesser than a Witchblade. And Mogdrogen’s Pact + Wendigo totem are inferior to Blast Shield. It’s effectively a mirror of ereoctes (a less effective than MoE though)
Also, you said Blademaster’s are gear dependent. True. For end-game they indeed are, but that extends to all builds. And you shouldn’t discredit a class-combo for being gear dependent. Blademasters can melt through anything this game has to offer.
But i think BMs would have a tough time against Rashalga, EoR clones and Mogdrogen. Please correct me on this one since i have yet to make a BM.
And tiers are set based on builds. A Cadence Commando is easily Tier-1, yet a Fire Commando is low or mid tier. Same can be extended to Spellbreakers, a WPS DM Spellbreaker is Tier-1, yet a PB Spellbreaker is Tier-2. Ultos Conjurer is Tier-1 and Vitality Conjurer is Tier-2.
And yes Occultist is indeed very powerful, it happens to be my favorite class (after the upcoming and unannounced Necromancer that is). But Warlocks are not Tier-1. They’re far too squishy to be Tier-1. Could be wrong, but Warlock is a Tier-2.
Btw, Ultos Elementalist is Tier-1 not Tier-2. It’s RR is a lot higher than Ultos Conjurer if one knows how to use Thermite Mines
Agreed here.
Cough Cough
DW-Aether Sorcerer
Nightshade’s Reach is easy to build around i’ll post it when i find the time. Not interested in the WK set, don’t like the lore enough to build around it.
Reading this kind of upsets me. Game designers never seem to be able to get the balance right between melee & ranged.
In GD I happen to like ranged more than melee, so I’m relegated to Tier 3? :undecided:
Meanwhile, Blademasters are still dropping bosses at least twice as fast, and being less at risk of dieing. Does no one else see that as a problem?
sigh
If those tiers had been posted by Medierra then you’d be right in your assessment but it’s not. It was posted by a player just like you or me. So no GD does offer tier-1 ranged support. Ranged BM is tier-1 
just because someone comes up with his ranking means nothing, others would arrive at completely different rankings (and have)
Which kinda proves my point…Blademaster is the answer to everything
That’s just broken.
Maybe I’m just getting bitter trying to make an end-game viable DW Fire Strike Gunslinger Sorcerer. It just doesn’t work. There are just too many problems that other class combinations don’t have; lack of HP, lack of physique from mastery, lack of DA, lack of damage, lack of -rr, difficulty covering resists without gimping something else…
I mean, OFF, seriously, what is that all about? Possibly the best skill animation & sound in the game, but the most useless skill end-game. Why on earth did they link the -rr to the freeze effect? There’s no such limitation on Cof/Vulnerabilty/Night’s Chill. And the CC, useless…a ranged character without CC isn’t a ranged character.
It just doesn’t make sense. Sorcerers just don’t make sense :rolleyes:
Which annoys me no end, because the aesthetic of DW Gunslinger, Maiven’s, and Fire Strike is pretty awesome. But, you can sling together a 2H Fire Strike Commando that will beat the Sorc in every single area by a wide margin :eek:
There is a build for that in the compendium, no idea how good it actually is though… in fact there are at least two
If DW ranged does not work for one class combination, that does not mean the class combo sucks in general though, it just means you made a bad choice for the itemization you want, if you eg played it more as an elemental caster it might work better
BM independent ranged builds are possible. If you want to make a DW FS gunslinger then go pyromancer. If RR is your problem then use the mines. If you want to use OFF that badly then use Night’s Embrace legendary. Good ranged builds not focused on BM are possible.
It’s not that I want to use OFF particularly, I was just pointing out how the skill doesn’t make sense when you look at similar -rr skills in other trees, which contributes to Sorcerer sucking. The Night’s Embrace trick, IMO, is a lame gimmick to fix a broken skill. It’s cheesey.
Thanks for the links, but that wasn’t what I was after. I do actually play many ranged and hybrid builds…it was more a discussion point about the lack of balance between classes, which always seems to exist in ARPGs. You would have thought after 20 years developers would have worked out how to balance things more equally between different classes, and between ranged / melee.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Grim Dawn, but it’s also frustrating
Also, you forgot 2H Ranged Primal Strike Druid from the list, even that beats Gunslinger Sorcerer 
Primal Strike is currently broken.
Also, I would wager that none of the builds he cited can do things like kill Fabius in one go, or Iron Maiden. The problem with ranged builds is that because CC doesn’t work on bosses at ALL, they turn into melee builds within 5 seconds of a fight starting guaranteed, and ACTUAL melee always outperforms a ranged toon being forced to fight at melee.
Not aware of it.
Oh and i do feel frustrated i absolutely hate Valbury. I kinda understand what the devs wanted to do this dungeon. But what they did is not really my thing. I don’t bother running Valbury not even for anasteria’s quest. Maybe my experience was made more bitter since i used a melee aether sorcerer but still i didn’t like roaming in that place. Watching out for ground damage, watching out for reflection, watching out for explosions, watching out for twisters/clouds, none of these would’ve been frustrating if i could find my way. I’m used to BoC and SoT where i run past things.
Sort of agree
I’ve had so many builds in the game some work better than others. 2 cookie cutter builds I made cause I had half the hear to do so were indeed easy street characters but had their road blocks too, probably needed all gear to work as shown. Currently working on 3rd cookie cutter build but a puppy has killed my gaming time. (3 kids and a puppy surprised I play at all)
I myself have made 2 characters to make it to ultimate loggy one was a failure the other while being a pain in the butt to get there can drop him in under 3 mins. This is my dual wielding pistol build but like I said she is far from perfect as I’ve had my fair share of I give ups with it. It really boils down to gear and resistances more than anything.
Agree 100%. That is my biggest issue with my ranged character, some bosses just won’t stand in my thermite mines while I shoot them, they insist on running at me faster than Usane Bolt and then hitting me harder than Superman giving me no time to run and gun as I’m dead. The rest of the game zero challenge as I’m stunning them knocking down and laying waste to everthing on the screen.
What do you mean by one go?
I don’t die to anyone except the Maiden, the rest i can kill with little to no trouble.