Hi all
I’m working on my various HC chars in their 60s and nothing works that well.
All the builds I’ve created myself, and it seems to me that unless you follow another persons build to the letter youre pretty scrwed in GD
In other games like it, you are not penalised so heavily for a creative or self-made build.
Seems in this game being a hard as it is with Elite now buffed that unless you follow a cookie-cutter build you won’t get there.
Amirite?
TYVM
Turnip
You are incorrect.
The way to play this game is be experienced with it and to understand what works. Take various builds from around the community as examples of players who found their stride.
You just have to find your own.
I never followed any builds and am doing fine, but then I am not playing HC so have more wiggle room
If you insist on playing HC you either need to know what you are doing or follow someone who does, not much room for error.
Not an HC player. Only copied two builds so far- Retaliation by Squib and Maelstrom by Ceno and even then i made those builds according to my playstyle. Rest of my build concepts are self discovered, I made many builds that were only made possible because this game has a lot of flexibility and interesting mechanism. I think it’s about making yourself familiar with the game mechanics more. All my builds are great for ultimate nemesis farming, and i have yet to make a Blademaster (going to save it for the last)
Also, Turnip you’re in the 60s. The game’s true possibilities are only revealed to you when you hit 85. The mistake you made was that you didn’t level even a single character to 85 and tried to simultaneously level multiple chars. I recommend using GrimCalc and GracefulDusk for looking out for items for more efficient build planning.
Interesting feedback.
Devotions themselves are extremely complicated when comparing to POE massive passive skill tree. I don’t find the devotion tree intuitive. I’m prob just bad at GD.
I’ve been playing these things for 20 years since d1 and am just surprised how you can mess things up with this game if you pick the wrong sub-class or are not completely confident with the deep complexities of the devotion trees.
Mind you, maybe it’s my fault for playing HC. I just wanted to group a load of chars and try for it.
HC does make things a lot harder, so if I played SC - I’d prob get further.
But my instinct is that I have little instinct with GD and it’s depth
TY
Turnip
Devotion is really easy to get the hang of. I for one recommend GrimCalc, i really got a hang of various devotion setups through it.
As for what you say about messing up by picking the wrong sub-clas. I’d say every class combination and i mean every class combination can farm end-game. Maybe not all have Tier-1 builds but all of them can farm end-game efficiently (maybe a bit less efficiently than Tier-1 combos but efficiently nonetheless). The only exception to this statement is the infamous Battlemage.
Tier 1 Combos: Any mix with Occ in it (Pyromancer, Witchblade, Conjurer, Warlock, Witch Hunter), basically. Possibly well-geared Blademasters. Certain Elementalist builds.
Tier 2: Most Blademasters and Warders. Possibly well-geared Saboteurs. All the other Elementalists.
Tier 3: Commandos. Most ranged builds barring caster-y Pyros, which probably are top tier when geared right. Most Sabs. Some Tricksters.
Tier 4: Spellbreakers, most Tricksters, and Druids.
Tier 5 (bottom tier): Battlemages. Sub-optimally-geared Druids.
Occultist is almost a guarantee that the build combo will be better. Having Soldier in the mix is a good sign but not a guarantee of a high-tier character.
Grim Dawn, is, as ARPGs go, fairly good about not FORCING cookie-cutter meta-friendly builds, but being an ARPG, is still susceptible to meta and still has some tweaking that needs to be done for balance and to help build diversity. Most builds will be able to finish the campaign in Ult without TOO many issues, but there are numerous other “filters” on builds other than Ult. “Optional” content like Nemeses (they aren’t really optional), actual optional content like Mad Queen and Bourbon clones, Gladiator Crucible… all these are effective filters on what builds are actually genuinely good as opposed to merely “workable in Ult”.
It sure feels that way sometimes. I think part of it has to do with the community, though; a lot of the grognardy ARPG players have such a narrow definition of a “good build” that anything which isn’t top tier gets derided as trash.
That said, it depends on what you’re trying to do. Melee is really damned hard to pull off if you’re not going pure physical or pierce, for example. Cold and Aether builds are rather lackluster. And offensive ability and resist reduction are brokenly good, so if you can’t stack massive amounts of either you’re not gonna have a good time.
Resist reduction meta is legit un-fun to have to work around. (And you DO have to work around it to be viable beyond Ult.) Adding more buttons to fiddle with does not, by itself, make a build more fun, and when you actually boil it down all the RR meta actually does is… add more buttons you have to fiddle with in order to do respectable damage. (Not to mention the fact that you have to set Devotion points and skill points aside to make sure you HAVE the extra buttons to fiddle with.)
What the heck? Possibly Blademasters? And you give Occultist a little too much credit. Yes RR indeed is powerful but Occultist isn’t required for the strongest of builds
Also tiers aren’t really made through class-combinations but rather through the builds.
And Blademaster is Tier -1, that class has survived more nerfs than anything in the game
Tier 3: Commandos.
???
Cadence Commando is top tier … it’s as strong as a Witchblade
Absolutely anything Commando does, Witchblade or Warder do better (barring MAYBE Retaliation). The only exception I can think of to this would maybe be a really weird build like a Dual Pistols Commando using Deathdealer’s and Havoc. The only reason a Cadence Commando would EVER be “top tier” is simply because Cadence is so fucking good, and a Cadence Witchblade makes a Cadence Commando look like a complete also-ran. More and better resist reduction options, better sustain through Blood of Dreeg, better defenses because of Aspect of the Guardian. Only real advantages the Commando has are transmuted BWC and Flashbang/Searing Light.
I don’t see Elementalist in the list. I guess, it is god tier? =)
Oh, right, I forgot that. File that under Tier 2 in my opinion (though Ultos elementalist > Ultos Warder). Except Quick Jacks builds, they’re Tier 1 because they’re goddamn ridiculous when geared properly.
I played with both Cadence Witchblade and Cadence Commando and they are pretty much the same. Cadence Commando has Blast Shield which is one of the defensive buffs in the game and Temper which gives a lot of flat and multiplicative physical damage.
So you are really overselling Witchblade. And no, Cadence Warder is nowhere as good as Cadence Commando.
Let’s compare and contrast the two for a moment.
Witchblade gets access to IAS from Solael’s Witchfire. Commando does not. Instead, he gets a bit more flat OA from Flame Touched. More OA is nice, but you should already have that taken care of anyway.
Witchblade is better for resist reduction. Commando’s options for RR are Thermite Mines, Break Morale and Agonizing Flames. Thermite Mines debuffs fire and lightning resists only. Break Morale’s resist reduction does not stack with Agonizing Flames’ resist reduction. Break Morale is centered on player and has a CD. Agonizing Flames, depending on whether you took the transmuter or not for BWC, has a cooldown as well. Curse of Frailty has no cooldown. Curse of Frailty also can be cast anywhere on the screen. Curse of Frailty ticks, making it great for setting off Devotion procs. Break Morale does not tick as near as I can tell. Agonizing Flames ticks (I think, not sure), but Agonizing Flames requires you to take your Demo mastery to 40. There is probably not much point in going both Break Morale and Agonizing Flames. However, Break Morale’s RR DOES “stack” atop Curse of Frailty’s. You can achieve really ridiculous amounts of phys resist reduction with this combo, not to mention all the proccing you can do.
Commando has the edge in reducing enemy DA. This is true. Flashbang/Searing Light does that very well, as well as adding on fumble and impaired aim. Witchblade can take Vulnerability to reduce DA somewhat, but Vuln is really unnecessary for physical Witchblades, for the most part.
Commando can stack % damage bonuses. This is true. However, after around 1000% or so bonus to your chosen damage type, additional bonuses really don’t feel like they’re adding much. Know what DOES feel like it’s adding much? Resist reduction. Again, WB out-RRs Commando hands down. And you can achieve godly flat damage and % damage bonus without Temper/Flame Touched.
EDIT: Cadence Warder out-tanks Cadence Commando IMO because of better stat spread and the entire Mog’s Pact line. And Shaman gives a good alternative to Cadence anyway.
I guess someone is forgetting Vindictive Flame which gives 15% Total Speed at level 16. And health regen.
A bit more? At level 22 it gives 250 OA, that’s not just a bit more. Temper gives a lot of flat physical damage (over 1k) and 185% physical damage at level 22. Both of these are really easy to get to level 22. Flat damage still can be felt when you have high % damage of a type.
Then there’s Flashbang that at only level 12 reduces DA by 250 points in a large crowd plus is probably one of the best devotion proccers in the game.
Only thing WB has over Commando is 25% Phys RR (CoF scales horribly past level 10), which granted is a lot, but it doesn’t make it better than Commando. I honestly prefer Blast Shield over Blood of Dreeg, specially when you get cooldown reduction. My Commando can have it up 90% of the time, 1500 Damage Absorption every 4 seconds or so.
Again, you are really overselling Witchblade. I’m talking from extensive experience with both. My Cadence Commando has a much higher Highest Damage dealt than my Witchblade and they are very similar in terms of gear and devotions.
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48597 This guide is a pretty good explanation on why Cadence Commando is really good
And no, Warder doesn’t out tank Commando in the slighest. Explanation for Blast Shield above.
No Wendigo Totem and Heart of the Wild are pretty big strikes against Commando. But I’ll try a Commando and see how it pans out compared to a Warder. Proof’s in the pudding.
The proof may be in the pudding, but there is always room for Jello. :rolleyes: