GD:Cornucopia v0.3.2 - Epic Items, Components, and More!

I’m happy to give some insight into this specific change actually.

Unholy is a rarer item, as you noticed, so generally it should be better. But considering we spread resists out more and raised the attack speed cap, there will be times where chaos wraps will be better even though they look like they give so much less. After Ceno and I talked about this I went ahead and generated some fully built lvl 85 characters, and sure enough on multiple I actually preferred the flat dmg and 1% attack speed over the unholy inscription as I had capped/near capped those resists and just wanted more dmg.

Though I’m glad to hear it feels good, I rather hear where it’s bad:
Feedback I’ve really appreciated so far was that Trozan’s Sky Shard still needs love, the bugs/errors, etc. Glad the component changes seem fine so far but would love some min-maxers to find out where certain components just fall out of use completely. As much as I love hearing when something is good, I really love hearing when something is still bad. I’m mainly curious about passives recently. I feel like they need to scale more on a curve, as in the more you invest in them the more they should give… Too many passives scale in a straight line. Hmmm. What passive abilities are still completely neglected?

Something else I’ve found out on my own is that living shadows still need a rather large buff. They don’t compare to the oleron’s blind fury proc at all. I may buff their damage 100-150%…

Thanks Weyu. I really appreciate your dedication. This will be fixed in the next version. I have no idea why the tag not found thing is occurring for mark of the false god as it shows up correctly in my 003 and 002. Hm

Yeah, sorry, I have been meaning to give feedback on the bleeding pet build using living shadows and the new reckless guardian. I am just in elite and was waiting to get the build higher to give a more complete rundown on it.

i’ve been watching and i can’t seem to see Tenacity of the Boar triggering any physical resist even with a 6% chance. How is this supposed to work? I’m only seeing the 8% from might of the bear.

I did a short search through the gameplay and skills sections, respectively, and it appears that the chance is rolled when you come under attack… bear in mind I have not tested this myself so it could be wrong.
Edit: This is based off of analysis of other skills/effects that have a chance to occur description.

Components: an issue is that there aren’t really any good offensive options for casters. To give some concrete comparisons, let’s see what is typically used (at least by me):

Various damage conversion components:
designed for WD characters.
Various damage aura components: damage conversion and flat damage is for WD characters, but the auras apply to both styles.
Hollowed Fang/Haunted Steel: permanent sustainability plus a god-mode ability on a cooldown. WD characters only.
Riftstone: used for mobility, can be used by both styles.
Blessed Steel: lowers resists. Nerfed but still good, generally WD only but you can smack foes with your caster weapon if you really want to.
Mark of Dreeg: same as above.
Oleron’s Blood: Mostly WD only.
Purified Salt/Imbued Silver: usable by both styles, a staple for casters due to lack of good alternatives.
Silvercore Bolts: finally a good option for casters. This might be overlooked by many, but 20% damage to Chthonics is very powerful.
Shard of Beronath: made for WD, but you can use it for the OA.

So of the 20+ options, there are really just about 4 applicable to casters (the 2 defensive auras, Riftstone and Silvercore Bolts). I don’t count the damage auras since the 75% bonus is so negligible it’s not worthwhile (Silvercore is always better if you run BoC, a primary farming spot).
So of those 4, two are defensive, one is utility and only the Silvercore Bolts are offensive— that’s what I mean about lacking offensive options.

To increase the options, if it’s possible to have 2 damage conversion stats on the same item, that would be useful. For example: 10% Fire to Cold on Chilled Steel alongside the Phys. conversion.
Or add some focus/caster weapon-only component counterparts of existing ones with stats tailored to casters.

As for bad components, one that stands out to me is Runestone.
There is no reason to use this since the bonuses are very small, but more importantly, Sanctified Bone is just king.
Sometimes I use Leathery Hide in that slot, but then I realize a 12% damage multiplier to the most common endgame enemy types is just too valuable to pass up.
I think Runestones need a very serious upgrade to make them a viable option.

Living Shadows: 100% agreed, I complained about those in the past, they’re just really weak.

Passives: A few on top of my head:
Ulzuin’s Wrath is pretty much useless to level beyond the first point.
Same with Counterstrike.
Decorated Soldier isn’t really worthwhile to pump either, since the bonuses are small and common.
Phantasmal Armor’s bonuses are useful but it’s not really a priority skill, maybe increase the armor bonus on it a little to make it more attractive.
Mogdrogen’s Pact could use some better values on the higher ranks, especially the ultimate ranks. The two links it has are great, but the skill itself is rarely worth leveling.

One last thing: is Concussive Bomb supposed to level the way it does? Every level does something else which made me think it’s intentional, but the 3rd level adds damage which is contrary to the original design and description.

Read everything but will quickly address this: Yes it’s intentional. Each level of the transmutor is supposed to change the way the skill is played to give it different purposes. The first lvl reduces the dmg but makes it better at hitting/better for high OA builds, and better for proccing abilities.

The second level sacrifices some damage to give it great stun utility.

Dunno about the third level. Ceno wanted the loss of 3 skill points to feel worth while but it really is just a big buff. I’ll talk to him about making it a “remove cooldown, lower dmg and energy cost” transmutor or something. Maybe more cooldown and more damage? I dunno.

Oh and so basically? Nerf sanctified bone enemy damage reduction is what you’re saying right :stuck_out_tongue:

Sanctified Bone does bonus damage to enemies, and I don’t think nerfing it is the answer.
The value is good but the problem is that there are no other attractive options for that slot.
It’s not really overpowered, since there are other sources that give even higher % bonus damage to enemy types.
It’s probably better to buff some of the other helm options, mainly that Runestone.

And as for some shit that is actually broken, while we’re on the topic:

Meteor Shower on summon type abilities— this devotion shouldn’t work on them because it’s balanced around its long CD, which the summons bypass.
You can put it on Thermite Mine or Mortar Trap and use it on every enemy pack.
I think you can even get multiple casts going at the same time and the damage is absurd.
Same thing probably goes for other devotions that have a CD longer than a few seconds, but this one is the standout example.

And about components: since you can put Imbued Silver and Silvercore Bolts on jewelry too now, I’m pretty sure that is completely broken as well.
Although you can already build a character with a lot of + damage % to Chthonic even in vanilla, this change allows you to stack 6 of the Silvercore Bolts (jewelry, medal, both weapons).

I had half an idea to make a Phantasmal Blades character using the above and the Demonslayer set, and to stack as much Chthonic bonus damage in every slot as I can pack in, stop me before it’s too late. :stuck_out_tongue:

Thanks for the rest of feedback. I had forgotten about the pet bug. Will also be addressed in next hotfix. About Sanctified bone tho:

Ceno said he made Prismatic Diamond pretty good now so there’s that.
Leathery Hide’s %health is nice. If it’s not enough I can always up it to 6% or something but I’ve used it plenty. Blessed Whetstone may be niche but it’s great for piercing damage builds. Even ectoplasm has been used by yours truly when I was desperate for more energy regen.

I can see the issue with rune stone and the rest you brought up. I just don’t think Sanctified bone is really as strongly a must as you… but I am heavily considering nerfing the %dmg to “faction”. I’m not a fan of the mechanic where it is easily obtained (components are too flexible for such a strong stat in that amount imo)… May nerf it down to 9%. I do totally hear you on the lack of other options though… cough new content release in the future cough. I think more diversity there would be welcome.

Will talk it over with Ceno when he’s back.

I don’t think in Cornucopia it is as necessary to max out all your resists, but it is possible we still need to do more on this front to make it feel less needed. I think a big portion of the problem is unavoidable burst enemy AOE damage, which will be looked at in 0.4.0… Still, I’m sure Ceno will think about making those 2 components reverted back to their old restrictions/

What I really need:
People to reach 85 fully geared cadence builds…
Physical 2 dual wield cadence and 2 hander
Elemental dual wield cadence and 2 hander.
And report back.

I need to figure out if Shred is too weak, if 2 handers are too weak, or if late-game cadence is too weak. Or a combination of these possibilities.

Hotfix v0.3.2F

002: https://www.dropbox.com/s/onq11gpelto6yz5/Cornucopia002.7z?dl=0
003: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dg4hljn9zx0yu62/Cornucopia003.7z?dl=0

Bugfixes

  • Fixed some item errors.
  • Fixed skill tree UI errors.

Game

[ul]
[li]Given our change to the %pierce chance on xbows, rifles now have equal projectile pierce chance as xbows. 30% for commons, 33% for epics and crafted, 35% for legendaries and MI’s.[/ul][/li]
Devotion[ul]
[li]Living Shadow: Increased Damage ~76% (multiplicative).[/li]
[li]Meteor Shower: Can no longer be linked to pets.[/ul][/li]
Soldier

  • Shred transmutor for Cadence is back for all ranged weapons.
  • Because of the return of shred we’ve nerfed the projectile pierce on fighting form, so it is only possible to get 100% pierce with 2 handed ranged weapons’ base projectile pierce chance.
  • Added new proc chance to Fighting Form for two-handed melee weapons.
  • Buffed Counter Strike damage 5% and improved scaling proc chance tremendously. Let me know if it’s any good now. Also let me know how much investment it took before its proc chance was worth a damn as I’d like to narrow the proc scaling range (raise the lvl1 proc chance, lower the top end ultimate rank proc chance).
  • Veterancy: Buffed hp regen scaling a teeny bit.
  • Decorated Soldier: Added +%health regeneration that scales faster at higher ranks.

Arcanist

  • Fixed Mental Alacrity Scaling

All links in first post should be updated to Hotfix v0.3.2F. Let us know of any errors!

@Weyu:

TL;DR I’ve been awake for around 40 hours so I’m too tired to write out a fully comprehensive response. Instead here’s my response to the question of “Is there anything Weyu wrote that wasn’t handled in the hotfix that you agree with?”:

Personally Leathery Hide is MVP for me. The new Prismatic (Diamond? Crystal? whoknows) component is also pretty good too, though maybe we could raise the threshold at which its skill procs.

As for caster vs. WD components, I kind of agree but don’t know how much we can really ‘fix’. A buff to casters may indirectly wind up being a buff to WD-users, so the disparity isn’t changed but playerside power goes up, which isn’t the intent of the mod. I think if there is to be a fix in the components it will be in the skills granted by them, but the fine details and minutiae of how we go about implementing a change there are about as up in the air as anything can get.

Please toss out some ideas or respond to this in any way you like, and hopefully I’ll have more thought-out and refreshed discourse with you (and anyone else!) several hours from now after catching some z’s.

Hotfix hotfix:

Fixed tags not found in 003. Hopefully this won’t keep happening as I just realized like silly I am that Ceno’s automated generation process doesn’t carry the changes to the .txt over… so woo! Just redownload the 003 version and the tag should be there for fighting form’s new proc and the description should be changed.

I have an 85 DW Cadence char, I was planning to write something about it in the near future but I still need 1-2 item pieces until it is complete.
What I will say for now is that Cadence is not weak, it’s actually one of my best chars.

I don’t see it man, I mean look at what Runestone gives: 18 armor, 10% Ele dmg/res. The armor is all right, but the latter 2 stats are common and have low values as well.
Leathery Hide is good but SB has the most significant impact of the 3, because it gives a big damage boost against the 2 monster types of the endgame dungeons.
This is me speaking as an endgame farmer, but even in the earlier stages I value this component higher than the others.
Can you explain why you think Runestone is competitive with the other options?

As for caster buffs, I was thinking of adding them to things that non-casters have a hard time of accessing, such as focuses and caster armors.
An idea is to raise the Spirit req. on the higher level caster items as well, so WD characters can’t sneak them on.
My two casters at the moment have 686 and 795 Spirit without any points in the stat, I was thinking of having the requirements on items raised by 100-200 so the highest items would have a requirement of 800-850.

The highest heavy armors require almost 1000 Physique, so that proposed Spirit req. is still a good chunk below that, which doesn’t force the player to go all Spirit and funnel them into glass builds.
The caster masteries give more spirit than the rest, so they get most of the required stats from that anyway.
It would also be an incentive to actually put points in a stat other than Physique, which should go well with your planned base stat rebalance in the future.

Another option is to make the Lantern devotion next to Behemoth better. I had this in one of my builds but I noticed it actually gives very little and the only build I see it somewhat worthwhile on are AAR builds for the regen.
I think the last node needs something different, as that’s the worst node. The cast speed value is low, the attack speed is useless for almost every build that holds a focus, and the energy regen is often useless as well.
So for a 10 node req. cluster that also doesn’t have an active skill, that combination is really unattractive.

On a similar note, I looked up other 10 node clusters that don’t have an active skill, and I feel Rhowan’s Scepter and Solemn Watcher suffer from similar problems.
If you compare them to some of the good clusters in that requirement range, such as Widow, Dire Bear, Targo, Ulo (the 1st node here is almost same as the last in Lantern, and every node in the cluster is good!), Rhowan’s Crown, Crab… or actually almost every cluster is good and offers something compared to those. So for most they were already decent or your changes made them good, but there are still a few outliers.
Manticore is an example of a cluster where the nodes aren’t great but the active is really good, but for Lantern and the other two, the nodes are relatively weak and it doesn’t have anything to make up for them.

Another cluster I mentioned before is Chariot, I really think that at least 1 of the early nodes needs some padding there. Compare it to Assassin that you reworked, that one is quite decent now.

And a few small things:

The new Fighting Form skill has a tag error, and the penultimate node in Targo says " --7% Shield Recovery Time."

Oh, and another thing that may have slipped by in the sea of 3.2 feedback: the “caster guns” still have that 400+ Cunning requirement that is too high for those builds, I recall you mentioned a hybrid Cunning/Spirit req. was needed for those.

I guess I’ll uh… address the above, since it looks like it’ll be fun… but let me preface this with : obviously Ceno and I aren’t Gods and we can totally be wrong about stuff yadda yadda. My reply here only speaks for myself tho.

Also let me add that what you said about looking at it as an end-game farmer is definitely where some of our conflict of opinion may arise. While this mod caters to end-game build diversity we do not want to neglect the early-mid game. So not all things will be created equal or end up in tier 1, or even tier 2. Not everything we do is just for min-maxers and I know a lot of my changes have only previously shit skills into tier 3, or 2.5. But that’s fine because when I do so I try to make them flavorful, or fit a niche, or even open up potential for something grand in the future (laying a foundation).

But on Runestone I was actually just going to go ahead and buff it, but Ceno said it was fine. How do I explain this… We have a very strong hands-off approach with each other. In fact 3.3 will be the first release where we really work in depth with each other on every little item change for legendaries to try to create a truly special experience. I totally could see Runestone as being a bit under-whelming but fact also remains I’ve happily used it while leveling sometimes as well. Unless one of us feels strongly against the other’s decisions we just go… “eh, alright then.” and I didn’t feel strongly toward Runestone. Is this oversight? Maybe. But I don’t just go “whatever,” when he says “no” or “yes” toward something I think about why, as we tend to have similar vision.

So let’s get into into my thoughts when he said “no”:[ul]
[li]Runestone has 10% elemental resist, which is a total of 30 resists. SB has 12% Chaos and 18% Vitality, also 30. Runestone also has 10% elemental damage and 18 armor. Both things a mage might like, albeit small. SB has +12% (I really want to nerf this to 7-9%) to undead. But that’s purely situational…[/li]
[li]Part of the reason this seems so terribly unbalanced is that A: elemental resist is much easier to come by/obtain and B: Vitality and Chaos resist are harder to get and more useful in end-game content. This can change though with future content from Crate and from our challenge dungeons! Perhaps what we need to do is make elemental resist more valuable both by making it more scarce (just a bit) as well as putting more elemental threats in the game. So yes, chaos vit resist > elemental resist in = amounts.[/li]
[li]+% damage to a faction is great but I can’t stand using it unless I feel I have to. I personally find the process a pain in the butt of constantly swapping out gear for farming one location or another. I try to build my characters to be universally good. Don’t get me wrong, I welcome challenge dungeons that really almost force you to gear for them specifically, but for current content I don’t see the need. Totally not implying I’m against something you enjoy though. I LOVE that you’re a fan of using these items for the mathematical juggernauts they are. However again, this item is only super valuable because there just happens to be tons of undead content, and tons of value in farming undead areas. And to be clear I know for a fact I’m not alone here. Many of my friends who enjoy min-maxing characters on a general level don’t enjoy gearing against factions. I mean when the Aether dungeon comes out with enemy arcanists SB will probably not be the best choice there.[/li]
[li]To reiterate, I initially was going to buff it up a bit, make the armor 21, make the %elemental damage 18%. Still might after I talk to Ceno about it more when I take care of a few higher priority stuff. But I can also see why it doesn’t need it:[/li]
[li]It’s pretty nice for self-found builds leveling from scratch, and a few builds that actually have a elemental resist disparity. I don’t really intend on it being end-game competitive, just fill a tiny niche… which it does. I mean I think a strong argument can be made as: Nobody is complaining that scavenged plating is under-powered. That’s because that item serves more purpose for crafting than anything else. Perhaps Runestone can be something in between (eh for wearing most of the time, but useful for recipes). [/ul][/li]So TLDR, it’s not competitive/barely competitive but that’s okay,(?) and perhaps it will have more value later… and this isn’t a dead discussion, It’s something I’ll keep thinking about and looking at.

PHEW! That was a lot about Runestone. Now I don’t expect to have convinced you but I just wanted to show you that no small amount of thought goes into not using feedback on my end. This is what my brain goes through on all feedback. Anyway I’ll keep the rest briefer:

Caster items- Extremely hesitant to raise attribute requirements as this usually doesn’t feel good for players despite sometimes being very health for the game. We especially won’t do this while physique is 10x better than cunning and spirit. Once we better balance the attributes (if we succeed) we will look into changing item requirements more and perhaps then a higher spirit cost for caster items will be welcome. Alternatively it can be argued that caster items already have the drawback of being squishy, and perhaps the problem is that caster items are just under-powered in terms of caster stats. We will prolly lower the physique requirements on heavy armor too following the physique nerf. I’d personally rather the different armor types be more distinctive in how they make your character play than what’s required to play with them… but that might just not be possible without higher stat costs in some places.

I’m absolutely tickled that you mentioned the Lantern constellation as literally just yesterday I was playing with it with a friend and commented on how it seemed weak. I probably will buff it soon. The thing I want to avoid is it becoming a must have for casters. I’m already not too happy with Kraken but I think it’s on the line of acceptable. But yeah, I want to buff it. Also spoilers but I also want to add 2 red to Magi in what it rewards for completion, or maybe make it 2 green and 2 reds instead of 3 green and 2 reds. Also I want to change Fiend’s constellation from granting 3g 2r to 3r 2g. Feel free to offer feedback on this. Chariot’s good in the affinity it grants and the OA, but I’m considering just adding +10% crit dmg to it somewhere and calling it a day. I’m REALLY tempted to to make it another on being hit instead of on being crit heal but the thing is we have HUGE plans for monster diversity. There will be high OA monsters, heroes and bosses, maybe even a dungeon, where this thing will rock in the future… we hope.

I found the error for 003 the tag not found. The issue was I made a custom particle effect (just a modified groundstomp, I think I made it subtle and nice lemme know! Custom art woo!) but it didn’t carry over to 003 so we will just fix it manually in next hotfix.

As for caster pistols, it’s not our immediate priority (probably will be soon) but I agree they’re not in a fun place. It will be addressed eventually.

Goodness, I’m awful.

So, again, I don’t actually have the time or wherewithal to write a massive reply to everything, but I’ll pick and choose a couple quickies posted above…

In my opinion, this isn’t actually the case. When evaluating the relative worth of resistances, I consider the reductions I’ll be facing in the game. In Ultimate, Chaos Resist is reduced by -25% (did we change that? I think we only changed Poison/Acid and Vitality…) and Elemental Resists are reduced by -50%. But since Elemental Resistance as a whole refers to Fire, Cold, and Lightning Resistance, its actually a -150% reduction to the overall stat. Furthermore, -Elemental Resist is a lot more commonly used by enemies (Shar’zul nukes your Fire resist, for instance) than -Chaos resist.

In light of this, point for point and in a vacuum, 1% Elemental Resist is a lot more valuable than 1% Chaos Resist. Even 1% Fire Resist is more valuable than 1% Chaos Resist. Do you remember the problems of the reduction of resist reduction in Vanilla GD with v1.0.0.4? If not, here, have a gander: http://grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40042 The problem here is equivalent but opposite.

Elemental Resistance is a lot more common than Chaos Resistance, but only because it needs to be. Going from -150% to -120% is a lot more significant than going from -25% to -7%.

On the other hand, the Armor is literally worthless and the % Damage is close to it…so my belief in its strength stems solely from its resists.

The Racial Damage on SB is as much a ‘garbage stat’ as Light Radius for the vast majority of the game (as a whole; maybe not your ‘ultra common super endgame farming zones’, but for everything entirely in the game) and a meager 1.12x damage boost when it does apply. So instead of critting for 30k, you’ll crit for 33.6k. Yippee…If it were 3% you wouldn’t notice a difference in the long run. If it were 25+%, then maybe we could talk.

Trust me, WD characters usually can’t ‘sneak’ them on easily. Most WD characters will wind up with ~340-440 Spirit from mastery investment alone (Soldiers getting even lower than that). Most caster armor requires low-to-high 500 Spirit, already requiring some investment into the stat or sacrificing an item slot (cough Pretty Great Pants cough) or two. Focii tend to require 700+, as you pointed out. As someone who has made a WD-focused 1H + Focii melee Firestrike Pyromancer, there was no ‘sneaking’ the focus on, there was a lot of Spirit investment.

Which we (I believe) plan to gut down by a couple hundred.

I’ll grant you that.

By how many points? 8-10, out of annoying developer-imposed necessity due to a player’s desire to try a hybrid build rather than choosing to invest in it of their own accord? And then they’ll still just invest entirely into Physique? :slight_smile: I don’t mean to flame you with this, if that’s how that reads. But I’ve had the thoughts before and after dwelling on them some more I’ve long since banished them from my mind. Stats should accommodate and empower builds, not enable them (except in extreme circumstances, like 50+% X converted to Y in one instance on a piece of gear). Mechanics should be the enablers. If we’re to fix the Physique vs. Spirit/Cunning conundrum, it will happen mechanically. Changing stat requirements (raising Spirit/Cunning or reducing Physique) doesn’t actually make anyone want Spirit/Cunning MORE or Physique LESS.

I actually really like Lantern and think it is the go-to for Hybrid builds. Keep in mind that you can use it with Scepters/Daggers, not just with Focii - Hence the inclusion of Attack Speed. I think the constellation is really strong and take it when I can…except that I usually can’t, because Eldritch affinity is kinda rare and getting 10 (or 7, after maxing it) requires more than just Crossroads + Hawk. Maybe we could reduce the affinity requirement from 10 (7) to 8 (5).

Most of my points are from the view of a min-maxer— my favorite part of the game is thinking up builds I think might be interesting and to push those to the limit.
I understand that you guys might not have the same view, and I agree that not everything should be top-tier or equally good since there’s nothing wrong with variety and some things need to be worse for other things to stand out.
However, what I strongly believe is that parts of the game that simply aren’t effective (compared to their counterparts) should be adjusted to make them less so.
Because if there are things that are outright better in the same tier, there is just no reason to use them for gameplay’s sake. Some of those buffs might end up increasing player power, but the main point is that they create more diversity.

I’m sure you’ve noticed that a lot of my posts are about casters and that might make me seem biased, but most of my builds are actually melee WD ones— I don’t even play casters that much.
But the ones I have played, I noticed they are simply far weaker than what WD characters can do and are often even more gear-dependent.

That last part is something that I always found curious about GD: in most (A)RPGs the casters are the ones that don’t require much gear since their spells do the heavy lifting.
In GD it’s reversed and even with good gear, I bet the best caster builds can’t keep up with the best WD builds.
So even though I don’t play casters that much compared to where most of my GD time goes, I do want to see the playing field leveled a bit to make the overall game more interesting.
I could write a bible-length text about the issue, but the short version is that casters’ main spells simply don’t do enough damage, which turns that spell into a proc medium. In comparison, with WD builds, the bulk of the damage usually comes from the main skill line.

Anyway, to reply to your points.
@Doom: your first bullet point made me think that you consider the 10% Ele damage damage roughly equal to the faction damage on SB, but that’s not true since the former is additive and the latter multiplicative.
And another major point is that it doesn’t just give bonus damage against UD, but also against Chthonic.
I noticed you both mention that this stat is situational, but consider how much presence those factions have in the game— they are everywhere.
Not just for an endgame build (it affects both BoC and SoT) but also throughout the leveling part of the game it has a significant impact.

You mentioned that you wanted the Runestone to fill a niche, perhaps they should be made a bit more common then.
Currently they share the same level requirement and (probably) drop rate as SB, which makes them really rare if you don’t craft them.
If they were a lower tier component, I feel they should be easier to get, to reflect that.

And as for the whole Runestone thing, believe me, I don’t even care about it that much, I just thought that it looked weak compared to SB for reasons mentioned.
But if you feel it’s supposed to be weaker, then it’s fine with me.

Concerning Lantern, I don’t think it should be a must-have or super buffed— I specifically think that the final node is bad since 2 of the 3 stats often don’t do anything at all for caster builds, while typically the last node is the best one in a cluster.
And now that I look closer, I realized that another issue is that the first node gives Energy regeneration and nothing else. That potentially makes 2 nodes that “don’t do anything” (or not much) if your build has enough regeneration already.
While most of the weapon-specific clusters are good to have in general, surrounding this cluster with those regeneration nodes makes it only appealing for very specific builds with high energy upkeep.
To bring up a comparison, Nadaan is unique, Kraken is a powerhouse, Hydra is good after buffs, haven’t used Berserker. Mace one as mentioned is weak IMO.

So I felt the combination of a semi-weird requirement, plus the way it’s just one insignificant node too many while being slightly too weak made it unappealing.

All my reports are from 002 by the way, I haven’t switched yet since I enjoy rotating between my current characters and shared stash. I might do so when I get bored of them and want a fresh start or when you stop supporting 002.

@Ceno: I don’t want to keep ranting about that SB, but I found the part you talked about the faction damage bonus baffling.

The Racial Damage on SB is as much a ‘garbage stat’ as Light Radius for the vast majority of the game (as a whole; maybe not your ‘ultra common super endgame farming zones’, but for everything entirely in the game) and a meager 1.12x damage boost when it does apply.
I don’t understand how you can say this. As mentioned above, those bonuses damage aren’t niche, since those two monster types are everywhere.
It’s not like in TQ where such a bonus is only limited to 1 or 2 zones, the final act is practically entirely Chthonic with some humans mixed in!
And undead shows up in every act AFAIK.

So instead of critting for 30k, you’ll crit for 33.6k. Yippee…If it were 3% you wouldn’t notice a difference in the long run. If it were 25+%, then maybe we could talk.
But that 3k damage bonus is actually huge, that would require a significant amount of additive % bonus to reach the same effect.
Heck, if you bring spells in the equation, that 12% might be more valuable than an entire 10 ranks in some spell.

As for Lantern— I’m curious, which part of it do you find strong specifically?
You also mentioned that it’s good on hybrid builds, but I’m not sure what you consider such a build.

Trust me, WD characters usually can’t ‘sneak’ them on easily. Most WD characters will wind up with ~340-440 Spirit from mastery investment alone (Soldiers getting even lower than that).
Funny you bring that up. My current Cadence character is actually using a Clairvoyant’s Hat since there were no good alternatives for it in my build, so I had to pump Spirit some to be able to use it.
And I’m using the Pretty Average Pants, yeah. :slight_smile:

And don’t worry about offending me— I don’t take it personally when you don’t agree with my opinions.
It’s you guys mod after all and I know I have a very strong stance on many things as a min-maxer.
I enjoy discussing about the game, and by posting more I can get a better grasp on how you guys feel about things too.
If I realize there are things you guys clearly have a different viewpoint on or that we just think too differently, I’ll just stop giving feedback that will go nowhere.
I’ll still keep reporting bugs though as long as I’m playing.

And I’m looking forward to your new content, new dungeons and items would definitely be awesome.

(Man, this ran too long, but there was a lot to address.)

^What no I wasn’t comparing the 10% elemental damage to chthonic. I did say I think the value is weak, and at higher levels 10% is completely negligible. I know faction bonuses are multiplicative… but I totally forgot it gives bonuses to undead AND chthonic… I think i might just remove the chthonic part and lower the undead part to 9%. :] Woops, brain fart. I have tunnel vision and my brain tends to skim on stats I don’t like to use lel.

I’m considering a bunch of things but I definitely feel SB shouldn’t give that much faction damage to both types. My point remains though that if there was a beast and aether challenge dungeon worth farming then it would at least be less universal but yeah… 2 faction types eee.

I’m considering lowering runestone’s item level and ofc allow it to drop earlier. This will make it look less compared to SB. Also considering reworking it entirely.

As for caster vs. weapon builds. I concur, but you have to admit it’s something we’re slowly chipping away at. It’s also a question of, are caster builds too weak or are weapon builds too strong? (It’s the latter btw)

We did tune down base one-hander damage by 5% for non caster weapons, and I actually do notice some impact there… but yeah a good amount of caster spells still need buffing I guess. It’s just not that simple:

If I buff the values all around, then they become too mighty just from skill points. If I buff them solely in their ultimate levels then they become very dependent on +skills gear. This is especially true for cooldown caster skills that don’t benefit from cast speed or weapon damage.

I think your assessment of lantern being bad is slightly biased by the fact that casters just aren’t in the greatest place yet… and maybe we need to raise skill energy costs here and there to make the regen more relevant >.> :]. The only thing I really want to do to lantern is add 3% CDR to one of its nodes, maybe swap around some of them.

Also my cadence ranged soldier is also using Clairvoyant’s Hat. Lel!

Anyway please don’t stop giving feedback if we disagree. We are sway-able. I’m feeling the sway on runestone vs. SB… multiple options here… lower runestone’s level tier? Nerf SB? Buff runestone? A combination? :smiley:

Sancitifed Bone definitely needs a bit of a nerf. At the higher levels it gives around the same effectiveness as 120% All Damage to the two most farmed factions - or potentially more if your damage values are already higher. The defensive stats are fine although a bit of extra armor on runestone might not be a bad idea.

Also while you mention it, please list your “worst offenders” of still under-powered caster spells.

did you all remove the shield Req. you had put on Might of the Bear or am I just wrong I thought that you added the shield to it at one time. also rune stone could use a bit of armour on it and if you have to nerf /lower SB how about try just 2% down and try it at 10% instead of the current just now getting into those parts of the game where I can begin to use items like that and do read up on the forums a lot to see what is good and not so good and try and go from there as I try to make my way through this Great Game more so your Mod. any way thanks for all the hard work the Both of you have put into this Project. Also it no longer says that you can use mats. on Jewerly (sp) but you can use them on those items just a small thing I noriced after the other days Hot Fix again Thank You for his Mod. :):):slight_smile: