thank god for that
which is IMHO the heart of an ARPG game.
for me it isn’t, I frequently stop playing if the game is too grindy
No progression = no reason to play anymore.
start a different char, grind is utterly boring and never kept me playing for more than a few hours
That’s why you should not NEED the items for an sucessful endgame char. Kinda like you didn’t need Mythics for a successful Underlord endgame character. They were just a nice touch of goodness, a trophy of sorts. A reason to keep going if you’ve already “finished” with the game’s content.
Rerolling is fine, I’ve made dozens of characters over GD’s lifespan, but I have those special few I like to revisit often. Having something in store for them would also be nice.
at that point I trade them and am done in a few hours with that, slaying the same bosses 100 more times to get an item you want but clearly do not need is not my idea of fun
I’m not sure how denying yourself the use of a feature constitutes “being appeased to”.
When you don’t use a game feature, you’re effectively using a self-imposed handicap, which is fine and all but doesn’t really argue against the point he’s trying to make.
I’ve gone ahead and split off this discussion into its own thread. Please keep it civil.
Funny. There isn’t a single strawman in my retort but your reply comes back with a truckload of them.
Here’s the thing: the game is not competitive but people like to compare characters. You have people constantly how this build can do this and that with top gear and such. Then someone decides to try to gear that character but notices it takes forever because one of the items is super rare.
I would be pissed. This type of super rare items just encourages cheating. I would cheat honestly, if something would take literally hundred hours of grind to get.
They can be soulbound 
The only thing I miss in GD is the heart-stopping moment of finding something totally AMAZING. It’s hard to tell if you’ve experienced something like that in Diablo2 or not, maybe you’re just not that kind of a player, but for me, those were easily the most memorable moments of gameplay.
I’m pretty sure we could introduce those moments to Grim Dawn too without making it ridiculous. It’s not like I enjoyed/participated in endless Baal runs either.
An extra tier of items that are harder to get, not overly gamebreaking, and entirely not REQUIRED, would make me super happy. I guess some people are impatient and would cheat, yes, but that would be their decision, no?
Zantai explained it better than I did. Self imposed restraints have nothing to do with actual game design.
But a lot of people will make it required. Endgame sets are not required to beat the game but people like to have a character with full gear. And then test it against the strongest things in the game.
You already setting yourself for disappointment and i sure as hell don’t want a higher rarity above legendary that is much harder to get.
The fact people thinks that adding a feature to lessen the grind for set items I have over 9k hours clocked on Steam, and I still lack several set pieces for most sets is “casualization”, just shows how most people don’t even know what this term even means anymore, due to the constant misuse of it.
It’s not like the player is just going for a “spin2win” easy way out, nor that sets will be handed like candy, since farming will still be involved.
Ex: If I want a Mythical Handguards of Justice, but I have a Mythical Shoulderguards of Justice, I’ll have to farm mats + spend Iron to reroll it, and it still won’t guarantee I’ll get my Mythical Handguards of Justice on the first try… it might take me several rolls, which will require several mats as well for me to finally get that set piece… and the odds will only get worse, if I want to get a different piece for another set.
People really needs to stop throwing this “casualization” nonsense on every single thing that the devs decide to do with their game (I’m not even talking about GD in here, but for every game in the market)… it’s annoying, tiresome and it only makes you look like a toxic gamer that has no clue of what you’re talking about.
Norzan, you know where this logic leads? Guaranteed sets. Diablo 3.
I’m pretty sure you played that disaster of a game, haven’t you? You don’t have to grind for anything there. You start a char, level up (or get leveled) to the final level, and bam, there’s your endgame set.
After a while, even those terrible devs discovered that people are quickly getting bored of that system, and introduced Primal Ancients, an awful patchwork to an effectively terrible loot system - and a mean to give players incentive to keep trying and artificially boost longevity.
Now that game is semi-competitive, so it FORCES players to hunt for Primals to be actually sucessful in ladder. GD isn’t. Getting the best items would indeed improve your effectiveness, but if done right, it would be just an optimization - strong enough to matter, but not important enough to make or break builds. A nice “finishing touch” in a loot hunt.
To me it is casualization, and I’m entitled to a different opinion. Please stop making this nice forum toxic like PoE forums, where speaking against the crowd makes you instantly lynched, only in another direction (you have to be “HARDCORE” there, just as you need to be, let’s say, “casual” here, lol).
So, not exactly Diablo2 model, but no Diablo3 system either. I guess that could make all players happy (and the super impatient would probably cheat more :p)
Keep it civil please. if you have to shove down your superiority of opinion, just don’t post. It accomplishes nothing except for making you look like those guys on PoE forums and that’s not good by any means.
Your analogy is flawed to the point i almost didn’t bother to reply.
In most games, difficulty simply cannot be tuned to the point where it would completely appease both “casual” and “hardcore players”.
And yes, in a very much single player focused game like this it is much better in any conceivable way to tell “hardcore” players to increase difficulty for themselves with self inclined rules and discipline (or even mods) than to tell the “casual” ones to “gitgud” or magically multiply the amount of free time they have.
And i tell you this with 3000+ hours in GD.
PS: Not like this feature will freely hand out full sets like D3 does, you will still have to farm stuff (legs, mats, possibly even freaking iron) to complete sets via this method.
Zantai is not always right and what you are doing is basically twisting the issue to fit in to your deformed wrapper.
Lets take another look shall we?
You say here “there is no reason they couldn’t appease to both kinds of players” and my response shows you that they, in fact, are appeasing both. No one is being forced to use it that doesn’t want to use it. You have been appeased. Does a person utilize every feature of the game even if they don’t like a feature? I highly suspect not.
Yet, you go on “With the new system, I’ll have a character finished in less than a week”. Maybe this is true? The new system still has a massive time sink in it unless you are already prepared ahead of time with everything required. But the keyword is where you type “have”, implying, once again, you are being forced to use something you don’t like, a something that in normal circumstances is completely optional for you to use.
Normal people don’t tend to use things they don’t in some aspect like, especially if that something is optional to begin with. You are both wrong.
You know where your logic leads to? Anger, frustration and then people stop playing and don’t want to come back for future content, meaning less money for Crate.
I like grinding and feel like i earned something in reasonable amount of time. But what you want is something really bad that will eventually hurt this game badly.
And again, the devs clearly don’t want you want. Or else they would have put these type of items ages ago.
“You don’t have to use feature X” is a terrible excuse because it effectively creates a game with no rules and an environment where you have to set the rules yourself, which isn’t possible with ingame knowledge in the first place. Games aren’t made, balanced or even developed with the notion of players picking what is right and what is wrong for developers. That effectively turns games into a no-rule free play, and I strongly dislike such thing. I like to play by the rules and use all options. If they are equally fulfilling, this means the game is balanced. If the game is imbalanced, I have to create self-imposed rules to make it so - kinda “fix what the devs screwed”. So what game am I playing in the end? Grim Dawn, or Kaiketsu’s Grim Dawn with a custom rule set?
Beat a game button. We all know the game needs it. You don’t have to use it, so it’s fine, right? With the mindset like yours, why do we even need set rules. You can cherry pick whatever you want and it’s all fine in the end, right? Why do the devs even bother making balance changes. Skill too strong? don’t use it. Feature broken? Don’t use it. Items bugged? don’t use them. All solved by one magic “solution”.
And in the end, whether you use it or not, it’s there. Which is the point.
This thread tried…I don’t think it’s going anywhere productive.
Lol…true statement, but its implication in this context…