Gear Acquisition and Transmuting Discussion

I’m kinda torn… Not a fan of casual-friendly updates. :undecided: One step closer to “you’re getting a full set of gamebreaking items each Diablo 3 season you play”. Next we’ll have a “talk to this NPC to instantly receive endgame gear with no hassle when starting a new char” stuff. Since we can craft most helmets of endgame sets, I guess getting a recipe = getting all the set a second later since you can craft and morph items ad infinitum. That’s pretty close to “getting the whole set at once” in my book.

I wouldn’t mind if there was an extra layer of rare items coming (more rare than Legendary) but that already has been debunked. Still hoping for a red-tier of items. Loved those in Underlord (Titan Quest mod). They were so hard to get yet so fulfilling once you actually got them. I guess that’s never going to happen.

Oh well, I guess happy times of Diablo 2 and endless grind are over, millenials are just way too impatient. Hope that doesn’t sound condescending to anyone, not my intention.

Hey Zantai, any chance of throwing us hardcore grind players anything too? why is it always casuals that get catered to? I get it that they are the biggest demographic of players nowadays but I’m pretty sure you could come with something to make both worlds happy.

Oh well, I guess happy times of Diablo 2 and endless grind are over

Good. Endless grind doesn’t belong in single player RPGs. Leave that crap for MMOs.

Good for you. Bad for me. Stop with the “I know better” crap please, everyone can have an opinion. Too bad the casual’s opinion always comes on top. Why can’t we have both of the worlds? you get casual stuff, I get some hard grinding, everyone is happy.

It has absolutely nothing to do with “casualization”. Endless grinding doesn’t do nothing expect to needlessly drag everything.

Thank god ARPGs moved away from that crap. I like grinding, but not nonsensical grinding.

I disagree. All those updates accomplish is cutting the time and dedication needed to complete the journey of making a perfect character, which is IMHO the heart of an ARPG game. Once you have everything, you’re pretty much done. No progression = no reason to play anymore. This is exactly why I can’t play Diablo 3. I’m pretty much done after a week: i have everything and all there’s left is stuff like “roll 100 strength here over 99” which is meaningless because you can’t even see the difference when playing the game.

To me it simply cuts down the epicness of the game. Stuff you get too easy doesn’t bring much fulfillment to me.

That’s why I’m kinda hoping there will be some “QoL” improvements for people that think similar to me, even though we are the minority. I respect that the casuals have overtaken the genre, but a little lucre for us dinosaurs wouldn’t be so terrible, eh? Pretty sure both sides can be made happy here.

Except Crate doesn’t want anything to do that involves taking forever to get something. They want progress to be steady in a reasonable time, not at a speed of molasses (like Diablo 2).

So yeah, prepared to be disappointed if you expect anything like that.

Like I said: there is no reason they couldn’t appease to both kinds of players. With the new system, I’ll have a character finished in less than a week and I don’t even game that much.

If it’s hard grinding you want, there are plenty of non-set items that you won’t be able to get via Transmutation. Meanwhile, “impatient, casual millennials” like me can enjoy not having to spend another few thousand hours watching the items I want never drop. Seems like we’re both catered to, really.

But you can’t do anything to appease both. They are two extremes, you can only either appease one or the other. If you appease one by making getting something too long, then the other side will complain. Same for making getting things too easy.

There’s not a happy medium where both are satisfied.

There are already people complaining about getting the BPs of Eldritch Gaze and Covenant of the Three. Same for constantly getting the same set items, over and over.

I already had my experience of taking too long to get something. It took me over 100 hours to get Achilles armor in Titan Quest. When i got it, i wasn’t happy, just glad it was over.

I don’t know if I’d consider a mechanic that helps players complete sets after the game’s been out for over 2 years as some form of dramatic casualising…Not to mention that you still need to get an item to transmute it, so not like loot is just appearing out of the blue here.

For crafted helms to transmute, you not only need the materials (something trivial only for somebody that’s put in many many hours) but you also need the original blueprint. If this method ends up being particularly abused though, it’s something we can always disable by blacklisting crafted set items.

Oh yes…I just can’t see how calling an entire demographic (which by its defined years includes me by the way) impatient would in any way be interpreted as condescending. :smiley: :wink:

Hmm, where to even begin here…

  • Crucible Waves 151-170
  • Ancient Grove
  • Virtually every balance change ever, especially those pertaining to items level 80+
  • Monster Infrequents
  • New high-level sets coming in v1.0.6.0…

I can’t think of a patch that hasn’t done something to keep the end-game players happy.

How in the world are we only catering to casuals?

Then I guess we should all be wowed by your incredibly efficient playstyle. That or what you consider “not that much” is more than most have time for.

I think there is a possibility to reach such a point. Getting easy to get “core” items that allow you to comfortably tackle all the game’s content (and here the transmutation comes handy so casual Joe doesn’t have to bicker about having to grind for hours or days) + extra optional dungeons/bosses that need a bit more effort and dedication (and maybe some slightly better, but slightly stronger items as a possible drop).

How does that sound? I think it would actually cater to both sides. Casuals would be able to complete the game and make a powerful character in a couple days. People like me would have lots of things to strive for over months of gamplay.


EDIT: Zantai, thanks for answering. What I meant was aimed pretty much at itemization only. With a new “ease of gaming” features, you could also introduce some slight, optional “bigger challenge” options as well so both sides are happy. Creme de la creme items, for instance. Something that makes you drool over when it actually drops. I nearly pissed my pants when I found a legit Lo rune in Diablo2. Will never forget that feeling, hah. Or ethereal Tomb Reaver - that was such an amazing trophy to find.

I wouldn’t have spent 1500 hours on Grim Dawn if itemization sucked, but there are simply times I miss those “O M G” loot moments. Your competitor POE has those, but it’s a (IMHO) much inferior game overall, hence why I play GD and not POE.

I think you already need to do this. Already predicting this gonna be abused, specially when some helms are easier to craft than others.

I agree. I hope helms are going to get blacklisted.

The typical end-game Legendary set helm costs:

300,000 Iron Bits
10-12 Rare Crafting Materials
2 Empowered Relics (15k + 1 Rare Material + 3 Components each)
1 Rare Component

This is on top of the cost of doing the Transmute.

How many times are you realistically going to use that unless you’re already swimming in gear/materials from hundreds of hours of playing?

A lot actually, because i already have several millions iron bits, hundreds of each rare materials and thousands of each component across several characters. But true, new players won’t be able to abuse it.

We’ll see how it goes.

Zantai, to clarify: what I mean is - I’m OK with softening the gearcheck part of the game (guess that will make most of your player base happy) but could I also hope for something contrary (for optional content at least) ? There are nerds like me who actually put 1500+ hours into this game. The longer there’s a carrot on a stick in front of me, the better. And I really don’t think such a carrot would enrage/frustrate your “regular” Joe out there. I mean, okay, there’s an optional hard dungeon where you have a small chance to get SLIGHTLY superior tier of items (Legendary+, maybe a new color so nerds are happy haha). Do you think “regular Joe” would complain? I don’t think so. And I’d love that, haha. Not quite as amazing as finding a Jeweler Monarch of Deflection @ Diablo2, but still very satisfying and a nice “ending touch” to months of journey.

Of course I’d rather have the journey never to end, but that’s life, some things just can’t go on forever.

realistically, you can’t not notice that such “carrot on a stick” partially contributed to Diablo2’s success. There was always something to strive for, even after years of gaming. My only question here is: what’s wrong with that & who does it actually bother that a game offers such longevity?

There are impatient people who just want everything from day 1. I get that. Kinda reminds me of AVGN’s beat-a-game-button. But for such guys, there are cheats. Vaults that can create items. No need for ingame cheats, honestly.

Care to enlighten me how they are not “appeasing” both? Do you feel that someone shall be standing behind you, a gun toward your skull, demanding you use the Inventor to complete your sets?

No? You have been appeased. You are now free to farm for thousands of hours at your leisure still. Effectively, approximately nothing… has changed for you with this addition.

then do not use the feature and be happy :wink: That is about the only way to have both worlds

Ah, I love the “you don’t have to use it” strawman.

It doesn’t matter if I use it or not. It’s still there.

You know what this reminds me off? telling a guy with legitimate complaints about difficulty (in, say, an FPS) that he can always turn his monitor off when gaming.

People already complain about taking forever to get the blueprints of Eldritch Gaze and Convenant of the Three and items like the Alkamos rings. Having something worse than that, some that gets even worse if your build needs that item for endgame, will just makes things way worse.

It bothers people like me who actually like to finish their characters in a reasonable time. Specially in this game, a game that actively encourages multiple characters, taking forever to finish a single character goes completely against that. This is pretty much the main appeal of the game for me and a lot of people, rerolling.

I don’t know why you are trying to force a thing that is atrocious in my honest opinion into a game that encourages playing multiple characters.