Global Pet Nerf Direction - Discussion


DISCLAIMER


I’m a complete necro-person. I love the class in all its forms, including pets. But even I support reporting imbalance that can be caused by random patch to one class or a global buff to a playstyle.

But recently, there’s been a persistent trend toward balancing one overpowered playstyle, which is hurting many others.



I’ll talk about skeleton-based builds and how attempts to balance one playstyle practically ruin the others.

First, a quick introduction. Skeletons are fundamentally the strongest pets in the game. But skeletons have two significant cons: they’re extremely fragile and they have no built-in critical damage (that’s why any +% crit is boosting dmg directly). That’s where the cons end.

Now, the pros.

Skeletons are summoned with a certain chance, but the reality is that it’s common practice to try to summon as many skeleton mages as possible. Here’s why:

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Even with a base set of 10 skeletons, they deals 350% weapon damage in an AoE with a single auto-attack burst + built-in bonus damage x10 + DoT x10. No other fully maxed pet, even two from a mastery pet focused set, can compete with the base set of 10 skeletons. For the same reason Spectral Crown is rarely used, making Ascendant Cowl an universal to-go item: you can quickly regain 50-70% of your firepower, or get your mage-army ASAP before fight.

Also, skeleton mages are ranged attackers. And the damage output for single target + AoE + clear speed of ranged pets is incomparable.

As a result, we have a powerful glass cannon, the balance of which during the PTs 1.2.0.0-1.2.1.6 was a real nightmare. Looks like the decision was made to take the easy solution for the future. Simply removing everything that buffs overpowered skele-builds globally: cast speed, flat damage, DoT duration, and critical damage.

But since cast speed isn’t available on items, the only way is removing a total speed bonus. As you can see in the video above, this had little impact on ranged-casters, but it had a significant impact on melee pets: they now run, attack, and cast AoE abilities more slowly (which, unlike skeletons’ auto-attacks, have a long cooldown). This is especially noticeable when facing an enemy with any slow debuff: ALL pets lack built-in slow res, and slow resistance on items is very limited.

Also high OA + crit damage combo allowed to at least somehow compensate the lack of total damage bonus from double/high RR for any build. But instead of nerfing skeleboiz directly, now we have a real problem with all non-skele-non-double-high-RR builds.


I can't upload all video examples of comparison right now, but I'll try to do it later ASAP.

If you also have examples, please feel free to post them.

Spoiler:

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2 Likes

You quoting me out of context. The set lost Crit damage and got +1 Hellhound summon limit, and that is what the thread was about.

The global Crit changes have nothing to do with nerfing skeletons in particular.

Yes, that was the point. Just as an illustrative example of nerf direction, without any context or specific complain.

But if we talking about BC set…

LINKS

Fully finished endgame build (re-leveling playlist, unreleased) with some old DR greens. Grimtools.

1.2.1.6 Rabagur (Discord link, I don’t have access to my game video archive now)

1.3 PT Rabagur (-33% crit dmg, +1 Hellhound, 0 skill pts for more support to Hellhound)

and

1.3 PT Some literally-5-min-craft: BC set + epic gear just to boost skeleboiz, 1 bleed res aug for Rabagur. Grimtools

You took a class-combo set and are using it with half of the combo. I don’t know what to tell you.

Is the set performing worse for Conjurers with the removal of Crit damage and addition of a hellhound?

It’s not possible to use the “full combo” because I have to choose which pet to max out due to a lack of skill points. And I need the Briarthorn as a main/side tank, cuz with 12+ claws the doggo is not durable enough.

And even if “mastery combo set” or “full combo” also means “support all combo dmg types”, then it’s nearly impossible do make a decent phys build (lack of RR, no full Hellhound conversion) although the set directly increases only %physical damage.

Yes. -% crit for all possible pets, but + dmg to Hellhound (which I even can’t fully max out w/o sacrificing more overall dmg or survivability) is worse.


And about max Hellhound:

Breath is still a reaaally hellaaa slooow mid range cast.

Hellhound conversions were veto’d by the community so the set was damage agnostic.

Show me these results.

It was really hard to choose or make a specific build where the clear difference between just different pts distribution would have such a significant impact on damage/survivability, and without drastically changing gear, devo map, or anything else. But I did it.

Mid vitality BC w/ standard balanced pts distibution and mid gear. Cally 2:05

Now I’ll try to max a Hellhound’s main node to utilize the new set bonus. But I need some more skill pts from somewhere. Ok, - Blood of Dreeg, +26/26 Hellhound. Cally 3:11

It was really bad. Let’s add a more effective heal, but at the cost of some more damage and speed. -Manipulation, +12/22 Wendigo Totem. Cally 2:40. Much better, but still far from the 1st result.

But what if I remove HH completely, but add everything else instead? Cally 2:55.

And final try: fully HH dmg focused gear, max possible pts, but now w/o Briarthorn. Cally 3:27

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Can we get the ability to summon 2x primal spirit simultaneous on this set instead of 2x dogs?

Why? Dogs are permanent and Primal Spirit is just temporary. With the monster cool down on Primal Spirit being able to summon 2 means that you will only ever have one out at a time.

TBH it would be too OP.

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Well it makes the set more versatile and it solves the issue of requiring so many skillpoints.
If the bonus is +1 summon limit and + 1 summons, then they will be summoned simultaneous.

It would require serious damage nerfing when it comes to primal spirit if you did that. Plus it’s not worth the effort because of Primal Spirit’s cooldown

In my opinion, this is now turning into a set that’s designed to support pets that lack damage and cc resistances hard to find in the game, then you can use your other items to support their damage type. Or it’s a set you can combine with a separate class

Primal Spirit with no cooldown will be a welcome change :sweat_smile:

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