Guide to Making Guides

It’s funny how I’m doing this considering I’ve never made a guide on these forums (but I have on others i.e WoW Forums), but it seems that a lot of beginners and even intermediate players are having trouble comprehending guides, and even ask for certain information to be made available to them that seems mandatory(to them).

This guide is not focused on how you should present your guide with all the bold/italics/color codes blah blah blah, but focuses more on what information you should put in your guide. I say should and not could, because should makes it a better guide(IMO), could makes it highly subjective and is almost impossible to satisfy. However I will include some pointers on how a guide should be presented, just not a very comprehensive perspective.

Of course, everyone is invited to offer feedback, and I will objectively look at them and change the guide if necessary.

Just as a disclaimer : I’ve played GD for about 2 years, and I haven’t dabbled with many builds, but I have played a lot and lurked a lot in forums reading up on various game mechanics and guides, and even trying to help players or clarify mechanics or troubleshoot guides. I’m no jajaja or Ceno or Most, but I do what I can. No offense to any guide writers that I didn’t give credit for, you guys are still awesome, keep up the good work.

General pointers

-> No wall of text. Write it using bullet points like I am, or make the paragraphs small and concise. Paragraphs that go too long distract people.
-> Always have a statement of purpose. Your guide needs to show what this build can do and how it does it. Make it brief. People look for a TL;DR, well this is your TL;DR. Alternatively, or additionally(best method) is to use a Summary at the end of your guide.
-> Color coding - I don’t particularly like it but play around with it if you wish. Don’t color code paragraphs, it’s annoying. Don’t use too many colors, and don’t use highly flagrant colors ex. Fluorescent, or hard to read colors like Peach. You have a black background, so use lighter colors or vivid ones(but not too vivid).
-> Use short sentences. Long sentences that go on forever and ever, without using any sort of punctuation i.e comma, colon, semicolon etc are impossible to understand.
-> Pictures are awesome. It’s a great form of advertising and using graphical clues to demonstrate viability and the fun factor are definitely going to attract people.
-> Always use links to refer to items. People are not always going to go back and check gracefuldusk all the time to see what an item does. Better for them to click links. Learn and use forum post code.
-> Brackets are awesome. They allow you to insert jokes, clarifications, snippets without disturbing the flow of the sentence (too much anyway). Also brackets help you emphasize certain parts of your sentence, you can do that using bold/italics/underline also though.
-> Videos showing your build in action - This is absolutely mandatory I feel, because it helps players see how you play your build, what skills are doing, when you’re casting them, etc.
-> Title of build - Quit the fucking clear times posting rubbish. Yeah only jajaja, and some other guy (Avatar of Dreeg, uberjager) is doing it right now, it’s highly flagrant. Post the title of your goddamn build, you can put the clear times and how powerful the build is inside. I’m not discounting how powerful jajaja’s, uber’s or Dreeg’s builds are, they are pretty powerful, but it’s just supremely egotistical. It’s not nice. That’s all.

What I’m trying to say is - if you look at the posts in these builds, half of them are newbies asking information about how to level, how the guides are supposed to work, how the skill setups don’t match up, etc etc. It’s because you’re catering to the elite few by posting such guides. Well you could benefit more by not posting such titles. Hell, we already know how good you guys are without posting your goddamn clear times.

Mandatory Information

-> Grimcalc with and without gear - I find so many people asking for this, and it’s easy to understand why. When people, especially beginners are looking at this guide, they want to understand why so many points are being put in a particular skill in addition to understanding what the skill does and what benefits it provides. It also allows them to understand skill breakpoints.

-> Leveling guide - So many people ask for this, like way too many. Some people are going to look at your guide and then immediately either try it out, and then find out they have no idea how to level it, even when following the skill build.

You can put grimcalc per 10 levels. This works extremely well and I’ve seen it in quite a few guides.

Yes, it’s hand holding, but do it, you’re the guide writer, you know what skills work best early game and late. Take jajaja’s recent guides for example for Warder and Conjurer, he says “Level with phys based Primal Strike”. And then come along questions on what skills to max first and why. It’s very generic, very easy information that could have been presented in an easy to understand form for the newbie, but had to be clarified across several pages and after several requests, and not all of them got answered.

No offense to jajaja, he’s one of the best guide writers(and innovative) on this forum, but he hopefully knows what I’m getting at.

-> Devotion pics and explanation on how to build it - This is especially important because constellations can be self sufficient. Ex. you invest one point in Blue Crossroads, max out Sailor’s Guide, and then respec the point in Crossroads. Say so, in your guide to Devotion.

Also explain what skills are bound to what, in this guide. People often have very rudimentary doubts about it, and yeah I know it’s stupid when people ask what something should be bound to ex. %chance on getting hit, when you could basically put any self buff there and it works, but make it simple and say exactly that.

-> Mechanical explanations - This is sort of annoying to do, but do it. It not only explains your abilities and how they work in synchronization, but it also demonstrates the work you put into the build and helps critics to improve it.

It also helps newbies to understand how your build works and how they can improve it on their own with some research on their end and how gear they get(if they play self found) can complement the build.

-> Number of pages don’t matter(kinda) - 2 pages, 3 pages what’s the big deal. Don’t go too long though.

-> Will add more when I think about it.

Summary(aka TL;DR) - Yeah, no this ain’t no TL;DR. Read the entire damn guide.

Yeah the guide doesn’t follow some(maybe most) of the principles I outlined, but I’ll tidy it up a bit later, right now is just the focus on the criticism of the guide itself.

Cheers, and if this is good enough to be stickied, go ahead, and I’ll make the necessary corrections later, or make a new post.

About formatting:

While I agree some posts labeled as “guides” could use some help, they often include the same line that can be found in yours: “I’ll tidy it up a bit later” (either about formatting or adding more information). Granted, it doesn’t actually happen often. But you can’t pretend writing a “guide to making guides” and do that as well.

You start off saying “This guide is not focused on how you should present your guide”, which is fine, but you should know that nobody will read something that is either a wall-of-text (like yours), or written by someone with a rainbow-unicorn syndrome.

To be honest, from the name of the thread, I even expected some templates with good design to help other making guides.

About existing guides:

Most cases, they should replace the “guide” with “gear-dependent post-lifetime-farm end-game build”. It’s a bit of an exaggeration but those builds certainly don’t need a leveling section as it often implies respecing once you get high-level and/or found enough pieces of gear so that the real thing can now work.

Maybe I didn’t look around hard enough but I feel there’s a lack of guides dedicated to leveling (and/or other specific areas of the game). Especially in the case of 100% self-found (not even sharing between characters). I’d write one if I was good enough at this game, but I’m not. Something that:

  • highlights the skills that shine in the early game
  • gives general pointers about attribute distribution
  • presents 2-3 devotion layouts (offensive/defensive/balanced)
  • offers general tips to make leveling smoother

Ideally that’d be actually written in separate guides. One (at least) per mastery, one (maybe not) about attributes, one per devotion layout, and the general ones referencing those and adding the tips.

From there, people could keep sharing their end-game spec, focusing on just that and with references to the above guides where necessary.

I mean, I skimmed this because wall of text, right? I will agree that by far the most frequently asked questions in replies to guides are:

  • how to level the build
  • grimcalcs w/o gear bonuses, or confusion stemming from lack of same
  • order of devotions/binding devotion skills/confusion over devotions being able to sustain themselves with completion bonuses.

So it would be nice if guide creators addressed these topics.

However, I could not more strongly disagree with your complaint about including clear times or Nemesis kill times in the title. Quite frankly, there are too many guides posted where it’s unclear if the guide creator even tested the build against Nemeses or other powerful bosses (Mad Queen, etc.) Considering that sheet DPS is often misleading, kill times/clear times provide an objective metric for the performance of a build. That information is quite helpful to know, and really, what is the difference if it is included in the title as an enticement to check out the build.

I actually wrote this when drunk and after being pissed at reading some of the posts asking for basic, rudimentary information.

The post isn’t a guide per se, it’s more like a handbook, a list of prerequisites that guide writers should tick off when making a guide. But I suppose you could still call it a guide, and therefore I should use my own points to remake the guide, which I will do today when I get off work.

You cannot write guides without writing a wall of text. What you can do is present it appropriately to make it seem it isn’t a wall of text. I’m not going to counsel people on that, what I wanted to say with that comment was to not write it as massive paragraphs, which are hard to read.

I’m not a guide writer, so I cannot provide templates, however I will include some links to some guides I think are very well written. I will even provide criticisms.

I think it’s meaningless horn tooting. You could just say Ultimate Nemesis viable without having to post clear times on the title itself. You can do that inside the guide. In any case, it’s nitpicking and guide writers can ignore that or anything else in this guide if they so wish.

I’d have to disagree with you and back Kaljurei on this point. There is no need to put it in the title except as click-bait.

Detail it in the post instead.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

always the best time to post to forums, lol! :smiley:

I think it’s meaningless horn tooting. You could just say Ultimate Nemesis viable without having to post clear times on the title itself. You can do that inside the guide. In any case, it’s nitpicking and guide writers can ignore that or anything else in this guide if they so wish.

But meaningless horn tooting is how you get more views… Simple marketing… People want the “best” build… And “most” people consider the “best” build as the one that can clear/kill things the fastest… Putting it in the title will get more people to look at it… Not saying it NEEDS to be there…unless you’re looking for more views…

Drunk posting - don’t do it! :slight_smile:

Also, use some of your own suggestions for writing guides in your own post. This makes you a bit more credible. :slight_smile:

Also, don’t drunk post. Seriously. :cry:

Right, it’s harmless marketing and an enticement to check out the build if you are interested in such matters.

i feel obligated to say something here since my name was brought up multiple times :smiley:

the kill time thing have been brought up before - the main reason i started writing guides here back then was because i got pissed at how many new players blindly follow/praise guides that were bad. Also how many guides that have neither endgame content videos nor kill times so people who didn’t know the game as well could not assess whether they were good or not.

to this end, i want to prove my shit is effective before people waste their time reading it. thats why i include “proof” in my titles. as there are so many guides out there, i personally don’t bother reading a guide unless it has either gameplay vids or kill times. take avatar of dreeg’s guide for example, if he didn’t post impressive kill times there’s no way i would want to read his massive walls of text :slight_smile:

Take the 3 good guide writers back in the day for example: zappa, most, nine.
zappa’s “stormcaller, the ultimate power of ultos omg!!”, that to me, sounded like some kid trying to make his shit sound cool. no offense to him since it’s an awesome guide :smiley:

Most’s titles “how play x, y in z minutes” were descriptive and showed proof of the power of the build and thats the type of titles i chose to stick with because I was new to the forum so people had no reason to read my build if i don’t have some sort of proof that its effective.

i write build threads more as self entertainment as there isn’t anything left for me to do in this game besides trying to find new good builds. most of them are end game focused so i don’t write 3 walls of text explaining how to level since that part isn’t fun to do (though tbh i could probably do a really damn good job at it as i’ve probably power lvled upwards of 20 chars in the process of doing builds)

as a result, repeated leveling has become a pretty traumatic experience for me, so writing about the leveling process is kinda like a rape victim talking about details of how they got raped

This is actually true even after 10 playthroughs (for me, at least, it was). I sincerly dislike writing walls of text and would not have done it if a forum poster didn’t specifically asked for a full leveling guide. I chose to be the good guy but I can’t say I enjoyed it, nor do I want to do it again.

Indeed, for 10% of the playerbase the game only starts in Ultimate and that’s why most top builds revolve around specific sets or a combination of powerful legendary items. These builds, however, are not in the build compendium and this is a good thing because that is where the new players will look first…AND, you know, new players won’t be able to gather the items these g5 builds (i am using the code :wink: ) use even after 500-600 hours of play (if they do it legit, ofc).

@Kaljurei:

Looking forward to the editing. Please do add “Don’t drunk post” in there :smiley:

@All, regarding the leveling section:

As said in my first answer I don’t see the point. For most builds, the early levels are a very different thing and it’s almost always better to go another route and respec later.

However, again as I said already, I’d love to see more up-to-date single mastery guides focused on early game (100% self-found normal/veteran clear). Those could be reference points to answer the newcomers (or hopeless newbs like me) asking about that part of the game.

:frowning:

I’m on the side of powbam being on the side of Kaljurei on the topic of kill times. It never felt relevant to me. Was my build a time? No, it was a character concept that I posted to the forums because this particular concept was successful.

Isn’t that…the…point of a guide…

Lol jajaja. God forbid someone write a god to display a build that is simply a fun experience, instead of something mathed to your concept of “good.”

I like your builds man, but going around calling guides “bad” because they don’t kill things as quickly is such a narrow view of “good” … it’s a surprising lack of self-perception from you.

I’m glad the “bad” guides are put up. I agree with you about the process of leveling again from 1… though not to as extreme a negative extent.

when i say “bad” i don’t mean build x kills boss 10sec slower than build Y. i post plenty of builds that kill slower than blademasters. when I say bad i mean the guide is poorly optimized and isn’t anywhere near the potential of what that particular build can achieve. a build guide who advises to use a certain piece of gear/devotion when there are clearly better choices for that very build. or a tank oriented warder guide not getting wendigo / heart of the wild. then newbies blindly following them trying to do content effectively. believe me i’ve seen stuff like this.

Ah. That’s completely fair. I misunderstood and read into the stuff being said about kill-speed too much. My apologies.

In the cases you mentioned in a quote, I concur, those guides need people to criticize them with detailed explanations to help prevent newbies from falling into a bad experience.

Putting content aside, colour coding is essential to a good clear guide and is hugely underrated.

As you can see in your guide of guides it comes across as a massive wall of text because 1) you don’t split it up with colour coded headings, and 2) you’re not concise with your information. Very boring and difficult to get into at first glance but good information overall.

As an example here’s your mandatory section formatted and broken down as a guide:


Mandatory Information

Grimcalc with and without gear - helps people follow your build exactly and allows them to understand the levelling process.

Levelling guide - helps people get to a point where they can use your build to its full potential - it’s no good playing a class that they can’t use efficiently until Ultimate.

Devotion pics - This is especially important because constellations can be self sufficient. Ex. you invest one point in Blue Crossroads, max out Sailor’s Guide, and then respec the point in Crossroads. Say so, in your guide to Devotion.

Mechanical explanations - It not only explains your abilities and how they work in synchronisation, but it also demonstrates the work you put into the build and helps critics to improve it.


Give people examples, they love examples :slight_smile: it looks better than:


Mandatory Information

-> Grimcalc with and without gear - I find so many people asking for this, and it’s easy to understand why. When people, especially beginners are looking at this guide, they want to understand why so many points are being put in a particular skill in addition to understanding what the skill does and what benefits it provides. It also allows them to understand skill breakpoints.

-> Leveling guide - So many people ask for this, like way too many. Some people are going to look at your guide and then immediately either try it out, and then find out they have no idea how to level it, even when following the skill build.

You can put grimcalc per 10 levels. This works extremely well and I’ve seen it in quite a few guides.

Yes, it’s hand holding, but do it, you’re the guide writer, you know what skills work best early game and late. Take jajaja’s recent guides for example for Warder and Conjurer, he says “Level with phys based Primal Strike”. And then come along questions on what skills to max first and why. It’s very generic, very easy information that could have been presented in an easy to understand form for the newbie, but had to be clarified across several pages and after several requests, and not all of them got answered.

No offense to jajaja, he’s one of the best guide writers(and innovative) on this forum, but he hopefully knows what I’m getting at.

-> Devotion pics and explanation on how to build it - This is especially important because constellations can be self sufficient. Ex. you invest one point in Blue Crossroads, max out Sailor’s Guide, and then respec the point in Crossroads. Say so, in your guide to Devotion.

Also explain what skills are bound to what, in this guide. People often have very rudimentary doubts about it, and yeah I know it’s stupid when people ask what something should be bound to ex. %chance on getting hit, when you could basically put any self buff there and it works, but make it simple and say exactly that.

-> Mechanical explanations - This is sort of annoying to do, but do it. It not only explains your abilities and how they work in synchronization, but it also demonstrates the work you put into the build and helps critics to improve it.

I’m new to the forums but have been reading the guides and playing the game for about a month now. Without these build guides I would’ve been totally lost as this is a deep progression system and without certain skills it would be extremely difficult to progress deep into the game. I thank those that have written the guides and have taken the time to do so.

As far as how they are written, this is my opinion and what I found most helpful. I think Squib’s guides have the most well-written and explanatory information. He puts easy steps to leveling (ex. 1-10 put this many points in this, etc.) and he uses a step by step devotion guide. This was very important as the constellations are overwhelming and very confusing for a beginner.

As I have been just starting out, my stash is only filled with blues and I have yet to progress far enough to find legendaries and such (limited play time with a job and all) so posting a guide based on end game gear is not very helpful. I may be in the minority, but I’m a serial alt creator, so I’m constantly starting new toons to see which is the most interesting, fun, etc.

Just my 2 cents since I read the OP and agreed that some guides leave much to be desired with leveling explanation.

@Ceno :

Depends on the scope of the “guide”. Why would someone posting about an end-game spec (like most) should have to include the how-to about reaching end-game? And if they feel like doing so, what about two separate “guides” referencing each others:

  • Here’s how you play the end-game, see “this guide” for the leveling part
  • Here’s a route to reach end-game, see “this guide” and “this other guide” for possible follow-up into end-game

“Optimized” is in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to games… It’s arrogant to think that your way is the only right way. When you say “believe me I’ve seen stuff like this” you are speaking from arrogance. Let people post guides that suit their enjoyment as there are likely others that would enjoy their builds their way even if you don’t. While it may not be according to your definition of efficient it may be according to their definition of fun.

it’s not about my way or only way, its simple objective measures of efficiency. if speccing a certain way will make the same type of build kill twice as fast and be tankier then there’s no reason not to. as the build is still played in a similar fashion. sorry but i don’t consider using a worse, less effective version of the same build to be more “fun”. and i doubt most people reading guides are looking for “fun” in that sense.

im not saying a lightning druid who kills slower than a blademaster is a bad build, some people find druids to be more fun which is totally understandable.

However if:
Build A is a DW blademaster who can’t clear ultimate due to being poorly optimized while,
Build B is a DW blademaster with a similar style play that is well optimized and kills shit under 10sec.

Then Build A is a bad build in my book.

just as how u have your opinion of “fun”, im entitled to my opinion about what constitutes a good guide.