Hands off my beloved Overguard, Zantai!

Soldier was too strong for too long. Oathkeeper doesn’t add anything OP to any builds, but in comparison with Soldier, it’s just too much. Most of my builds are based on Soldier, and they use shields, the high difference between Overguard on/off is and always was fucked up. According to you, there should not be any other shield-based masteries, because Oathkeeper made shield Soldier too strong. You seem to hate everything that’s new, which is totally stupid. The only thing I “could” call OP in Oathkeeper is double physical RR, from the WPS and Celestial Presence, but other than that, I’d have to lie that something is OP. I haven’t seen any skill everyone maxed on every Oathkeeper build, Ascension, Resilience, Righteous Fervor, Aegis of Menhir, Judgment, Vire might, Spin2Win, nothing seems even close to being OP. Eye of Reckoning is just overpicked because people love “spin2win”, even if this skill was shit people would play it. Keep on lying to yourself that Soldier is not an issue, everyone knows Oathkeeper didn’t do anything, but shield bonuses (Haven) and retaliation did.

I never thought it’s shit. It was always on its peak and could never fall off.

Oathkeeper does add broken things IMO. Aegis of Menhir is essentially a ranged, AoE cadence with massive IT ticks.

Well, can’t really talk about it because I don’t own FG, but I didn’t really see it on many builds, therefore I listed it. I had defense on mind anyway, but whatever. :stuck_out_tongue:

with or without fumble?

What do you mean?

We’re back to the binder problem again. Arcanist had the strongest skill in devastation. Great defense and cdr, but no RR. Then necro arrives and added that RR along with so much more defense. Add to that the plethora of conversion to aether that was added and we got the strongest class of AoM before nerfs.

Soldier also had really great defense. The problem was that it’s best damage meant he had to let go of the shield and go 2h forcewave or dw cadence. Now Oathkeeper adds that necessary damage to soldier without ditching shield, along with octavius and phys retal.

I don’t think nerfing overguard is better than just nerfing octavius and some phys retal sources. The defense isn’t the problem. It’s that there’s so much damage while having that much defense. Also, even with the incoming overguard nerf octavius and retal will get nerfed anyway so it could turn out to be too much.

I simply think OG should have a slightly longer CD tbh. Because you can chain that shit with absolution without ever needing to take OG’s transmutor

Nerfing Overguard, no, but changing it yes. Octavius set is another story, it needed a kick a long time ago already, imo.

OG is just the only thing that makes shields feel like shields. Non-OG builds basically use shields as either stat stick or just an enabler of certain skills.

What’s so unreasonable about adding a longer CD to it so people are actually forced to take markovian’s defence more?

The unreasonable thing is you seem to be looking at OG through the prism of such builds as Octavius, retal and to lesser extent Markovian and pretend this and that is unrelated.

How does classic Warborn performs? Or Spellscourge? Or Krieg DK? Are they OP too?

I think nerfing OG with the OP octavius and retal builds is the wrong way to go. It will only hit the lesser godly builds

It’s not like every Soldier build is laying waste to the endgame. This is going to do more harm than good. :frowning:

That’s fair. What then is the proposed solution?

Block recovery reduction should just be multiplicative.

Nerf the damage parts octavius and phys retal. Don’t touch overguard. Don’t touch acid retal devotions and perdition. Maybe give a buff on sentinel set’s occultist part, buff fire retal, increase lower bound of lightning retal sources.

The classic “Why crate just why, buff weak builds instead!!” one, for example.

Overguard can be nerfed if shield baseline and devotions will be buffed to compensate. That’ll give some love to non-Warlord shield builds. It won’t have the desired effect on the performance of top contenders though, ideally it should cancel out.

I can get behind all these suggestions. Makes sense to me.

Are people seriously suggesting to not nerf A, but buff everything else instead?
And then someone will complain the game’s too easy again. :eek:
Not that there’s not plenty builds or even entire masteries that need the help, but shield carriers are rarely amongst them.

In case you misunderstood I was being ironic. But yes, people sometimes still suggest that.

That someone will complain that the game is too easy anyway, because it is a relative thing. Few builds that could take on top content - game is hard, many builds that could do it - bah, they dumbed it down.