Is it possible for someone to explain me in a bit of detail just how the local damage conversion on a DAR interacts with WPS skills? I’ll give a simple example:
Reaver with Onslaught as DAR
Mythical Direwolf Crest equipped
Execution procs
What happens here? Is the flat damage from Execution added to Onslaught, and converted to Pierce due to the medal’s conversion, or is the process different from that? I guess that basically I’m asking if local conversion on a DAR converts the damage from WPS skills that it procs, assuming that the types of damage/conversion match. If that’s the case then you only need conversion on the WPS skill if the conversion on the DAR doesn’t align.
Does it work like this or does it work differently? Thanks!
Some recent literature on the subject for your perusal:
But basically, all damage that comes out of a normal DAR (i.e. not Cadence) with a 100% X to Y Transmuter is going to come out Y, and for triggered WPS too.
I don’t remember properly (sorry @Gnomish_Inquisition !) how the situation works with Cadence, but with other DARs, I would say these three rules:
Conversion declared for WPS works only with the WPS
Conversion declared for DAR not only works for the declared DAR, but also works with all WPS [if the WPS does inflict corresponding damage type flats], because WPS is added (tied to) the DAR you use
3a) “Local” conversion to permanent or temporary buffs [e.g. Reckless Power, Blood of Dreeg] affects not only flat dmg declared by those permanent or temporary buffs, but also affects all flat damage of the corresponding kind among skills you use
3b) Global conversion declared anywhere affects all flat damage of the corresponding kind among skills you use [e.g. Mythical Gladiator’s Distinction]
Sometimes, converting the damage to desired type is easier, sometimes it is a bit tough task.
Well, 3a and 3b are basically both global conversion in the end. Having it in on a piece of gear or on a buff gives you the same result.
Highjacking my own thread, and doing the obvious comparison, how is Cadence different exactly? Do you need to convert both the WPS skills and Deadly Momentum, or just DM?
Please @Gnomish_Inquisition , help me with this, if I write something incorrect or forgot to write something.
Deadly Momentum is, like Soul Harvest (from the Bone Harvest skill) or Lethal Assault (from Amarasta’s Blade Burst skill), a secondary effect. It is a secondary effect type, which boosts not only the skill, which triggered the secondary effect, but it boosts all your other attacks for declared time.
Unless stated excplicitly, damage of secondary effects is not converted, eventhough the core skill itself is.
E.g. - You have a modifier, which tells “100% physical damage converted to aether damage to Cadence”. What does it convert? Cadence dmg itself, any WPS having physical damage into aether damage, but Deadly Momentum stays intact, as well as any “Internal trauma damage” stays intact, because Aether damage is an imminent type of damage and has no “DoT” part.
To convert “100% physical damage to aether damage to Deadly Momentum”, you have to search for this “statement” exactly.
Or have the relevant global conversion, yes. It’s been a while since I spent some time with certain mechanics of the game, and these specific details are a bit harder to remember.
I never quite understood if conversion to Cadence only happens on the third hit bonk, or if it happens on all of the three hits, including the two that proc WPS, thus converting or not those said WPS skills along the way. This is the specific part that always confuses me. Let’s say that you’re using the Aether Conduit for Cadence, which of the three hits get converted to Aether?
And yes, secondary skill modifiers, I do need to remember that mechanic.
this
Cadence conversion doesn’t convert wps on Cadence discharge, (nor DM ofc, only the flat portion from DM applied via Cadence discharge’s %weapon dmg)
That’s exactly why I rarely use any build with Cadence, which needs to be converted. The one exception is Chaos Cadence, which is comfortably “doable”, even with some Soldier WPS converted.
The feel of the usage of Chaos Cadence is comfortable, so I assume everything is converted or at least is not “lowered”.
I hope all three hits with Cadence are converted, because IIRC, though the third hit is very specific and some things doesn’t work as expected, “Cadence” is considered as a whole (all three hits). In ideal world, it should be “PROC-PROC-BOOM”, so the 1st and 2nd hit have their qualities as well.
Cadence discharge only/“third” hit (we don’t like to actually call it 3rd hit i’m told, since it’s not entirely accurate)
Cadence modifiers only apply to the actual cadence hit, not the chargeup hits
So that’s what’s different with that particular DAR behaviour in comparison to others, and why Sir_Mac mentioned the Chaos example, since with two Servitor’s Corruptor you get 100% global conversion.
yes, Cadence is “weird” even by Grim Dawn standards, couple people are currently doing their PHD in Cadence simply because bigger flex than quantum super relativity string theory
At a base level Cadence is different from other DARs by being a “windup” skill instead of ex "charge"scaled like Savagery. So initial hits aren’t “Cadence Cadence” but like a proc trigger to activate Cadence when it gets full, then again unlike Savagery style charges, consumes the windup charge in the Cadence proc/trigger.
The “funny” part is, a devo skill attached to Cadence, will still trigger on the windup hits/“first 2 hits”, it’s just Cadence modifiers that are not applied/treated as a separate interaction “proc effect”/scaling wise for the chargeups/non Cadence discharge hits, as if the entire skill is a secondary effect mechanic itself
It was just a doubt that occurred to me while theorycrafting a Leap Reaver. I was playing a Leap+RoS build when Fangs released, but then I had some hardware issues and when I got back to the game a month later I started fresh and I’ve been running a Chaos Mystic (how original, I know). So what happened was that I was trying to see if I could get local conversion to Pierce on Onslaught and convert the flat on the WPS skills with a single piece of gear, which turns out I can.
The build really isn’t going anywhere because it tries to do too much, and getting ranks to Leap/Faultline isn’t well supported. Let alone as a Pierce/Bleed hybrid. It is what it is. Pierce/Bleed seems really niche, whereas Physica/Bleed does have some support for Berserker.
