How is this +649% aether dmg possible?

[Noksion]

Just saw a post on reddit where the guy shows Aetherfire Lucius’ Blad-Arm of the Aether
The thing has +649% aether damage.

I went to grimtools and checked the stats for lvl 94 weapon and affixes.
Even going with max rolls: the base weapon is 205%, aetherfire is 91%, of the aether is 184% which would be just short of 500.yet there is a 649% on the screenshot.

Are there other factors that can contribute to the weapon damage (the stat line, not the actual character damage) that I’m not aware of?

[Bas]

You might have GT set to average values instead of range. The range on it is this:

[Noksion]

I checked item and affixes separately.

[tqFan]

The values of this “Of The Aether” are only properly high if put it on the sword directly for some technical reason probably. Dammit not knowing proper scaling unless you select weapon type or sth like that maybe.

The calculation of them in Grim Tools is very complicated because these min and max values are not even in the game’s code directly but it’s a product of amplitudes, scale factors, lots of rounding etc.

[Croc]

The bonuses provided by the afixes are probably bigger because they are being applied to a two-handed weapon instead of a one-handed/shield/off-hand.

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

the affix is already separated by 1h/2h class

like tq mentions items have variable/hidden internal bonus scaling, i think it was called attribute scaling? or something, (or there was multiple)
That’s why GT can’t display base affix correct by itself, because the affix itself has its own value, but that value can be magnified more or less depending on the specific item or even level of the item it gets attached to.
So ex same lvl 92 aether suffix on a 94 item might give 150% aether, but if you’re slapping it on a lvl 1 item it might only give 120%, meanwhile GT will display the base value of 110% dmg on both if taken out of context/not assembled in the calc

lvl 94 lucious scaling if anyone wanted to see

91% prefix+184% suffix *1,8 = 495 +205%base total of 700 max roll ± rounding quirks, reaching 699% as per Bas screenshot

[Bas]

I know one thing. You never know everything about GD mechanics

[tqFan]

You never know everything about Cadence even, let alone the whole GD mechanics

[Gnomish_Inquisition]

i knew i’d seen Dammitt explain it somewhere

this is the technical side of it [GrimTools] Item Database - #137 by Dammitt

To keep it simple:

1. attributes on affixes: can vary, but can’t scale. They scale based on the item they are applied to.
2. attributes on augments, components and consumables and of course skills can’t vary, can’t scale
3. attributes on all other items can vary, some of them can scale, however there are certain attributes that have fixed values.

The formula is rather simple:

function _calcMinMaxValue(base, scale, jitter) {
	return [
		base * (1 - (jitter / 100)) * (1 + (scale / 100)),
		base * (1 + (jitter / 100)) * (1 + (scale / 100))
	]
}

But there are some quirks when determining what actually can vary and/or scale and how.

Affixes always have scale=0, but they have certain jitter (“lootRandomizerJitter”), so for base=100 and jitter=30, minmax range is [70, 130]. Affixes DO scale, but based on the scale of the item they are applied to, so this can’t be reflected in their cards in the database.

Attributes on items always have fixed jitter=20, but they can also scale. So for base=100 and scale=30, minmax range will be [104, 156]. Some items have rather high “attributeScalePercent”, for example it is 52 for 2h legendary rifles, bringing minmax range for base=100 to [122, 182].
But the tricky part is that not all of them scale that way, to be precise currently only offensive attributes scale with this property, other attributes have scale = 0. Also there are attributes that have fixed values, e.g. +x to skill/mastery, light radius, exp gain, energy regen.

[Toxophilix]

@tqFan

You never know everything about Cadence even

If you think you understand Cadence, you don’t understand Cadence.

[Noksion]

Please share some esoteric (or even common) knowledge about Cadence.
I’m all ears and coincidentally just playing Cadence right now.

[RxJunkie]

@Noksion

Please share some esoteric (or even common) knowledge about Cadence.

Here’s some interesting reading about the mechanics of Cadence:

Melee Cadence Mechanics [v1.2.1]

1. internal cooldown (ICD) mechanic Cadence has an internal cooldown (ICD) mechanic. Whenever you gain a charge, you must wait for ICD to get next charge, or to consume the charges and launch the 3rd Cadence attack. ICD for melee Cadence is 0.35 seconds now (in v1.2.1) and was 0.5 seconds before. ICD scales with Attack Speed (AS). At high AS, character attacks faster, and ICD become shorter as well. So high AS won’t reduce charges or reduce frequency of Cadence in theory. ———————————— 2. ba…

“The one thing I know is that I know nothing (about Cadence),” said somebody famous.