Howl of Mogdrogen vs Nature's Guardian's

[Serimert]

Are you surprised you got a vague answer from a vague question? At the time I answered, you had no grimtools link, no classes listed, no examples of pets or items you wanted to use, or anything detailed.

I’m using Ishtak on my pet build, and I regularly see crit multiplers approaching 3.0 without having to use Dying God. The flat OA on Nature’s Guatdians is nice, but the flat physical damage isn’t useful for my build specifically because I use the Occultist ravens. I needed some damage absorb, a defensive proc, and defensive stats, so that’s why I went for Ishtak. I’ve had better success in the crucible using Ishtak on my raven build compared to the other 2 devotions, but again, this will change depending on which pets you’re using or if you have a circuit breaker like Mark of Torment. I also use a shield, so I wanted to get the Obelisk proc as well for maximum survivability. Bard’s Harp also gives flat OA to your pets in an AoE, so you can pick that up too if you’re going for Ishtak.

That’s the most specific answer I can give, using my own Gladiator 170 summoner experience as a guide.

Thanks for a good answer this time. Can you check this link and tell me what can be improved if possible?.
I have also mog version( Scorpion sting and Manticore on pets). But this seems more ultimate viable.

[sir_spanksalot]

Yes, and at the time, it’s the best way if you want to do actual damage. Anything else and you take very long to kill stuff.

It’s either that or ishtak.

Not sure what ‘fuck and chuck’ is but if it means ballz to the walls then i’m sure i do it with some chars as well, ie: Belgo BM ,as I curriently play without war cry and 40 cunning invetment in 150+ crucible

Sometimes reckelss abandon is best way

Oh, I completely agree! It’s sometimes also the most fun way to go about things.

I was just trying to ‘tailor’ the answer (if you will) to serimert’s preferences - which is DG/Ishtak from what it seems.

[thepowerofmediocrity]

General Rules of Thumb that I use when designing pet builds:

Raise Skeletons Necromancer: Dying God + Aeons, and it’s not even close. Being able to raise 6-8 Skeletons at once with TD’s cooldown reset is vital to have in the event a large AoE wave wipes out your pets. In addition, Skeleton builds are the most reliant on pet buff skills like Sovereign and Witching Hour, and having those cooldowns go faster is equally important for these types of builds.

Pure Swarmling Builds: Mogdrogen + Eldritch Fire - Swarmlings are the most fragile pets in the game and they die extremely easily in Ultimate, and unlike Skeletons, you don’t have the ability to bring 3+ out of the ground quickly. As such, it’s far more important for them to get as many swings in as they can before they kick the bucket.

Pure Raven Build: Snazzblaster, it’d be neat to see a Grimtools of that Raven 170 Summoner - is that accounting for the new v1.0.6.0 buffs or were you able to do that even before those buffs? I would have said Mogdrogen + Ultos easy because the faster the Raven shoots out its 3-5 projectiles, the better, but I’m intrigued to hear you do so well with Ishtak.

Retaliation Pets: ToL + Obeslisk + Ishtak + Harp - Obelisk is only useful in Retaliation Pets because it’s a rare source of +% Retaliation damage for pets. Otherwise, the % on Block is going to be too rare for pet builds to be able to rely on it, as pet builds are not going to be able to stack %Block Chance easily. If you’re not going retaliation, I’d just put 3 points in the bottom 3 nodes of Obelisk (if my devotion path leaves 3 nodes open, that is) and leave it at that.

As for Ishtak, I’d personally never use it if I can’t also use Harp + one of the Fiendflesh items for additional absorption with it. 20 second cooldown for a 6 second buff is very unreliable, but Harp’s OA buff to pets and much better uptime helps make up for Ishtak’s unreliability.

This is all assuming, of course, that your gear and skills can account for the other things you miss by taking your devotion route. Dying God is mandatory for Vitality + Chaos pets, but if the Health drain is too much or if you don’t have enough pet OA, then Mogdrogen is a very good ability as well. DG / Mog is definitely a tier above Ishtak, as the poor uptime and no %pet damage bonuses makes it a poor substitute for the other T3 pet devotions.

[Snazzblaster]

General Rules of Thumb that I use when designing pet builds:

Pure Raven Build: Snazzblaster, it’d be neat to see a Grimtools of that Raven 170 Summoner - is that accounting for the new v1.0.6.0 buffs or were you able to do that even before those buffs? I would have said Mogdrogen + Ultos easy because the faster the Raven shoots out its 3-5 projectiles, the better, but I’m intrigued to hear you do so well with Ishtak.

It’s accounting for the new 1.0.6.0 buffs; I don’t know how it would do currently since I made the character during 1.0.6.0. I’ll post the grimtools when 1.0.6.0 comes around; I don’t want anyone to make inferences about any changes until the devs confirm it themselves, and my build might allow people to make make some educated guesses.

What I will say, though, is that Mogdrogen would probably increase my clear speed, but I’m already clearing stuff while keeping the time multiplier so I don’t really see the point. I value the extra defense that the Ishtak nodes and ability give over the extra speed.

[AngmarDT]

Sorry for perhaps a strange question, however:

Shepherd’s Calll

• 210% to all damage
• 40% Crit damage

Dying God (pet’s bonuses)

• 200% to all damage
• 16% to all damage

OK, iShepherd’s Call has only 25% chance on attack, however with Doom Bolt it procs every time basically.

What is the point to make such sacrifices in order to get Dying God together with Ishtak while you abandon Shepherd’s Call at the same time which gives very similar bonuses at considerably less cost?

[Superfluff]

:

Shepherd’s Calll

• 210% to all damage
• 28% Crit damage

Dying God (pet’s bonuses)

• 200% to all damage
• 16% crit damage and another 10% from node

made some corrections

[AngmarDT]

made some corrections

You are right,

Shepherd’s Calll

• 210% to all damage
• 28% Crit damage
  via nodes:
• 13% health
• 5% defensive ability
• 15% elemental res

Dying God (pet’s bonuses)

• 200% to all damage
• 16% crit damage
  from nodes:
• 90% to all damage
• 10% crit damage
• 5% attack speed

Still Shepherd’s Call is too good to drop it while chasing Dying God as you have to take rather useless (for pets’ build) constellations on the way to it.

I cannot kill Mogdrogen, Lokarr and Ravager with my pet conjurer so far and to be honest i don’t think Dying God will help me as HP cost for it is rather huge.

[Superfluff]

Still Shepherd’s Call is too good to drop it while chasing Dying God as you have to take rather useless (for pets’ build) constellations on the way to it.

I cannot kill Mogdrogen, Lokarr and Ravager with my pet conjurer so far and to be honest i don’t think Dying God will help me as HP cost for it is rather huge.

why on earth would you drop shepher’s call? You can have it as well

[Serimert]

You are right,

Shepherd’s Calll

• 210% to all damage
• 28% Crit damage
  via nodes:
• 13% health
• 5% defensive ability
• 15% elemental res

Dying God (pet’s bonuses)

• 200% to all damage
• 16% crit damage
  from nodes:
• 90% to all damage
• 10% crit damage
• 5% attack speed

Still Shepherd’s Call is too good to drop it while chasing Dying God as you have to take rather useless (for pets’ build) constellations on the way to it.

I cannot kill Mogdrogen, Lokarr and Ravager with my pet conjurer so far and to be honest i don’t think Dying God will help me as HP cost for it is rather huge.

why on earth would you drop shepher’s call? You can have it as well

I have a beast mog path in edit. Shepherd is too good to pass(Despite %70~ uptime)