Borderlands 2 had a decent balance between SP and MP at release. I could kill Terramorphous with no glitches and without the broken The Bee/Conference Call combo. But then UVHM and level cap and the game started to get more MP focused and OP levels came along and pretty skewed everything to MP.
I hope this never happens to Grim Dawn.
For some reason (ESPECIALLY in the AAA section of the vidya industry) there is this peculiar notion that Multiplayer is a must. Particularly prevalent with FPS titles. I personally do not feel the need to be social while I play my video games, and I don’t appreciate it when being social is forced upon me in any medium. I play video games in no small part to get away from other people. Hell is other people. Heaven is a can of Monster Java and a pleasant romp through Veteran with a newish toon in GD with my cellphone turned off and my Discord set to Away.
I don’t know what the industry thinks it’s going to get from punishing introverts like me, but it’s definitely not going to be our money.
Plus there is the new Warhammer deathwing game, which I have serious concerns with. While the devs say it both SP with bots and Co op with 3 players, (or 1 person with 2 bots) (from their FAQ, looks like that is pretty bad in my book, and its possible that the bots might not be that good if they reduced them to 2) I really cant see this doing well on the SP front, plus the fact it might force you to co op with people to do certain sections, as the bots might end up been pretty damn useless. There is a internal beta and open beta for those that pre ordered, but the betas will be with people, not bots, so one game I have serious concerns with, and the lack of unedited videos and so on, just makes me even more nervous. (not pre ordered)
But I do think that BL2 certainly went too far MP balanced, especially making a lot of bosses so hard, you had to team up.
Seen this time and again, C&C3 is another good example, the game got balanced around MP, destroying SP to the point it makes the later levels near impossible to beat. (I still got the disk version, so I can at least with with the early builds before the later balance patches destroy things totally.
And yes, we have POE, as already mentioned, that game is so MP focused, trading and droprates are MP focused, near impossible to do anything solo without needing to trade. then if your char needs good gear, then the prices become silly (unless your on a league) I played that game on and off, I have one fairly decent equipped char, but I had to trade to get the gear, and cost me a lot to gear it. Something that is a real turn off, not played the game for a while now, not sure when I will go back to it?
But for me, GD with modding support is awesome, and like TQ before it, GD will have a nice legacy, something that POE and D3 will not. Once the servers are gone, no more game. And I don’t see either lasting as long as D2, or TQ, or GD. I just don’t.
Then again, look at Morrowind, even after all these years, that still has a very strong modding community, and now we have Skyrim SE, which is more of a downgrade.
The big issue is, mods need to be redone, (old mods from Skyrim will not work. Two, you can use nexus for mods, but Bethesda wants modders to upload to their servers, and only f the mods are accepted and comply to their ToS, as they also want the same mods to work for consoles. Right now, the Se version is more of a downgrade, plus seems more buggy then the original.
Still, mods are what keeps a game going, a game tied to closed servers can’t really be modded. But I’m thankful that GD is SP focused, granted balance sometimes can be hit and miss, but we still have mods to make the game better and last, even beyond the point that the devs thinks its time to no longer support it and move on with a new project. I’m sure the modding community will still keep the game fresh, and you can’t say that for ever game out there.
People that ask about “resources” or “money” to make closed servers are suposing that game will fail making online gamers come to play GD, but i supose that make a strongh online experience can make game lot greater, more resources, more employers, more expansions…
But the whole point is GD isn’t designed to be an online game. It’s been single player from the start with a small multiplayer option, same as its predecessor Titan Quest. If the devs wanted the game to be online MP don’t you thnk they’d have designed it that way from the start? It would certainly have been easier than trying to change it all later on.
Not all games can or should be online MP. Not everyone wants to play those sort of games - yes, that’s me for one. MP doesn’t interest me in the least. I know a lot of people do and there are a lot of games out there that they can play and enjoy. It’s just that GD won’t be one of them - not in the way you’re envisioning.
Also - let’s be honest. There are tons of MP related bugs to fix before we can talk about something like closed servers. Then also closed servers only make sense if you can’t cheat, otherwise you could just use the MP it already has, there and I am not sure crate is able to make it that secure.
To those who think closed servers would bring in that many more players: The game actually has a server browser and MP and as it was released there weren’t any mods out and it did not affect the sales in a way that it is likely a closed server version of the same MP would bring that many players that it even closely pays for the costs. This is just unlikely. If would talk about a game that does not have MP at all and we would ask for a MP feature in the first place this might be something completly different.
the fact, is that is a waste of talent of crate guys cause actually the higest % of players want online games, and not online , online + safe gaming.
They can growing up making the game not only for single players, they can also expand to MP. And don´t forget the piratery… if people really want to enjoy the game online, must buy yes or yes… is a really good point of view.
But well is only my point of view, devs said that there are no plans about it so it is clear.
And has been in every other thread that asked for the same thing.
They can do what they want as long as I can keep playing offline.
You want me to describe for you one of the shittiest feelings one can have gaming related? Don’t worry I’ll relate it anyway.
Paying for a game and not being able to play it when you want, as you want. Because of fun crap like maintenance, or worse yet, your internet took a hit. No worries tho right, just call your isp and enjoy the soothing tones of an auto greeter informing you that there are difficulties and they are working to resolve it as quickly as possible. No time frame included, no idea what the problem is.
Eff that kemosabe.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Not to mention (okay I will) those online games where you have to subscribe to play. Sorry, but no way am I coughing up cash to play month after month. I wouldn’t play at all if every game went down that road.
Ya that’s why I was more a Guild Wars fan back then. I tried WoW once since a friend was hassling me. I think I made it like 1 or 2 hours, hated the Saturday morning cartoon graphics and uninstalled it and never gave it another thought.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
There certainly is a market for closed servers and in a perfect world we’d cater to that audience as well, but you also greatly overestimate its prominence. Only about 10% of ARPGs players ever play multiplayer.
This is a statistic that’s held true in Diablo 2 and Titan Quest, and it holds true in Grim Dawn (I’m sure for other ARPGs as well). Just because people have to go online to play does not automatically make them want to share that experience with others.
In the end though, for us, it falls to finances and focusing our resources where they best benefit our audience.
I also gave WOW a go, a friend of mine (nearly became EX friend) got me into the game, he knew I was a farming type of person, while I know him in real life, he became a bully online, expected me to farm and put money into the guild stash, plus he was been pretty dodgy. I helped got another person into the guid that my friend was running, he too was a farmer, but that’s when things went wrong.
In the end, I wanted to leave the guide, it was getting that bad, so I left, and my friend wasn’t happy one bit, then later the person I helped to get into the guide also left, and when we were in the same guide (which he formed) my friend when ape and hated me for a long time, nopt on speaking terms I might add)
Anyway, glad that was over, not touched WOW in a long time and not going back to it.
That percentage is very very low. Surely things have changed a bit since d2.
well, without having the money upfront to develop the server code, it really is irrelevant how many would come.
Assuming you have the money, the question becomes ‘is it well spent’ or would it be better spent on eg an expansion or GD2.
The answer here is pretty obvious, just about anything would be a better investment… servers cost about as much as GD to develop, do you really think there is even the slightest chance it would double the player base ?
So yes, I do not see anywhere near that number of players coming because of closed servers, in fact I doubt they would break even
Yeah…some people who played D2 online a few times learned never to make that mistake again! 
It wouldn’t surprise me if it hasn’t. You have to remember that the screeching honking dorks on an internet forum are not the entirety of the purchasing crowd, or even the majority. They’re a subset of a subset and trying to placate them is like trying to herd cats into a bathtub.
It’s great to have options, which is why modding is so popular. Maybe someone will create a “ladder mod” of some sort, who knows. But if this thread is any indication, even in this thin slice of players there isn’t enough interest in the closed server model to be worth it.
To be fair, games like D3 force people to play online and with other people. I still played D3 mainly on my own, but not playing in groups but me at a serious disadvantage when it came to getting gear.
A lot of people of buy ARPG games only beat it once and move on. I’m assuming it very plausible that 10% of the player base prefers MP with others in the genre.
The reason why this game is so amazing is its created for a niche player base.
All I can say is just because a game is popular doesn’t mean the game is good. Diablo 3 sold millions upon millions of copies, but as a whole its a meh game. The amount of resources that were dumped into it just to make it somewhat okay is pretty pathetic if you think about it.
Well, that u guys post in this forum that u dont like multiplayer is obviusly. U are players of grim dawn, and u are following the forum cause u like it. So is obv that the majority % of people here dont like MP.
Try to open a treath in PoE forum telling that PoE is better is single players, and stop their own servers. So that is not a valid point of view.
Now i want to show you the real point of view, look at the players in steam for example of PoE and grim dawn. Now come here and tell me that single player now a days is more popular than online gaming. NO GUYS… single players now a days sucks… sorry to tell u this but is the truth, PoE has Lot more players than grim dawn… wake up and exit of your single player world. Online playing is a must now a days and is coming stronger and stronger each day. The fact is that diablo 3, that is a shitty ARPG has more player than grim dawn! why? because its ONLINE! and wait… not only that… 100% of diablo players bought the game because if not they cant play!! i bet that may be more than 50% of people playing grim dawn dont bought the game… is sad but is the truth