[Idea] Gear Perfection Levels

I hate RNG in games, I mean pure random. So I’ve deciced to introduce you something similar to ‘smart random’.
Imagine, that game developers have introduced hidden gear parameter named as “perfection level” (PL), which will be explained below:

  1. Definition of PL: given that N - num stats on gear, S(i) - stat number i value, Sn(i) - normalized stat value (i.e number between 0…1), then PL = (SUM(Sn(i)) / N) * 100, is perfection level in percents.
  2. Game should use a map { gear_id => perfection_level } account-wide, not characted-wide!
  3. Gear generator function should be modified: GenerateGear(gear_id) -> GenerateGear(gear_id, perfection_level)
  4. Each time you get a gear (gear_id) drop, game increases its associated perfection_level (so the next time that gear drops, it would be more ‘perfect’ version than previous one).
  5. The more you play the game, the more perfect gear you get (in theory). There could be some edge cases.

Imagine we have versions v1 and v2 of some item. Lets say that item is used in some pet build, so we are mainly interested in pet stats.
Because PL(v2) > PL(v1) we expect that v2 is better, but in fact there may be situaton when pet-only stats on gear v1 are better than v2 one, while other non-important stats are higher. So in reality we have to stick with v1 version of the item.

PS: There is also one more param. Idk how to name it properly, let it be “Perfection level increment delta”, which should be tuned properly to not allow players become GODS after playing lets say, 1000+ hours.

What do you think of it? Which cons/pros this system have?

P.P.S: Sorry for bad english.

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So you wouldn’t be able to get a perfect version of some item just after starting playing?

It depends on GenerateGear(gear_id, perfection_level) implementation.
There are 2 options:

  1. GenerateGear(gear_id, perfection_level_min) - we are able to get perfect gear from the “start”.
  2. GenerateGear(gear_id, perfection_level) - we are UNable to get perfect gear from the “start” and have to progress slowly.

Version 1 is backward compatible with current random system (for new/mid players).

A player can choose one of these 2 options?
How does option 1 differ from the current system?

If a player can choose then he obviously chooses 1 when he starts the game and 2 later which is kinda cheating. Or do you get perfect duplicates after you happen to get a perfect by chance?

If a player cannot choose 1 is like a current system and 2 is flawed because you cannot get a good exciting drop when you just start a game. You are punished for starting in a way.

“it depends on the implementation” means that the developers will choose which version of function to select.
2-nd version is not so bad, because you have feeling of some sort of progression. You start from weak version of your build and progress slowly towards (near) perfect version.

This is an interesting idea…

What about instead of it being toggled on or off, if it was instead only enabled on Hardcore mode?

I’ve got another simpler idea. Let’s say you got 2 duplicates of an item. There would be a NPC that can combine these two to give you a better version which have for example rolls equal to the higher one from the original 2 duplicates (or something along those lines if this is too powerful).

We can roleplay it and think of Blacksmith salvaging those items and combining best parts.


That would be amazing, would also save me so much stash space. Huge QoL improvement. This would also further incentivize farming and collecting all your drops. Someone like me can really nerd out on this, just farming and collecting, so giving it more purpose in this way by rewarding it is something i can totally get behind.

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It’s honestly a little misguided and this is exactly why.

What you are asking for is essentially a level progression on your equipment. There are simply better ways to do this and I have done so in the Infinity Mod. The real negative is that you wouldn’t find that rare or excellent piece of gear. You would simply be finding better gear all the time. The random factor when used correctly is an addictive and rewarding feature. It also allows you to find multiple items of equal value, but for difference purposes.

What do you gain? One might argue more stable gear progression, but there is a better way. This is how I handle it in the Infinity Mod. Despite your luck on items you WILL always progress via leveling. This provides a steady progression system with both stats and skill points. You can essentially level for 1,000’s of hours, but you will not become over powered. That is due to the design accommodating for players that reach level 200, 400, 600+. It’s very simple to create upgraded versions of creatures that will be stronger than the player even without forced scaling.

The benefit of RNG equipment
This is clearly seen in the early stages of the Mod. You may get an offense bonus of 2-5 for example. This is important as otherwise you would always just find the best piece of equipment. The RNG element is removed though as you don’t need to find perfect equipment. It would only get out performed anyway by another high tier of equipment. Later on you will get 3-7, etc. Whether you lucky or not really won’t matter in the large scheme.

What your suggestion would do is remove one of the most rewarding aspects of an ARPG. That moment when you find the perfect role, rare, or legendary you have been grinding hours for.


Not sure I like this. Doesn’t this essentially mean, the next time I find the item, it will always be better than the last time I found it ? In other words, I will never have a ‘great’ version of it, as there will always be a better one ?

Seems to turn things into an endless grind, which I am not at all interested in.

I like that currently item quality is “unfarmable” and governed by RNG. All players are equal in the eyes of RNG, no matter if they spent 10 or 1000 hours in Grim.

Also you can bet if Crate implemented your idea, the next day you’d see a YouTube video “Fastest way to cap perfection level”. We would start seeing “perfection level inflation” and only new players would operate on low end of perfection scale. Crate would have another problem on their hands: how to balance the game for players with low and high perfection levels?

Another thing I don’t like is that loot would become part of a hidden state machine where future drops depend on past drops, so that loot “levels up” with the player. For people who enjoy farming - life would be easier. But for me who doesn’t farm, game would become too easy over time with no way of resetting it.

How do you guys feel about @tqFan’s approach though? Personally i think it would be great, because RNG could still play a factor, it would just be giving you the opportunity to destroy 2 of the same item for combined stats of the higher rolls on stats pulled from both items and applied to the new one.

If thats too potent, maybe it could be designed with more RNG, randomly selecting 2 of the highest rolls for stat values from either item and carrying them over to the new item, for example. And/or impose steep material requirements and iron cost in order to execute this function.

Why do i think this would be cool? Because you could put a lot of time into assembling a collection of “perfected” gear, combining duplicates using this mechanic to get 1 slightly better version, and continue refining further by combining that better version with another better version, until you eventually attain an item thats “perfected” (GD stash levels of stats, for example), for those of us who cant trust ourselves to use GD stash responsibly this would open a lot of doors while simultaneously giving farming a whole new purpose.

I for one could sink hours into farming for MIs, and then “perfecting” them. That process in itself would be so fun!

i think that Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem has a great idea on eq where you can get items that will reroll the stats of the eq piece so when you get a nice piece that could still be better you can just reroll those stats with the reroll items (which aren’t flowing like spice) to see if you can get lucky.

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By eq you mean equipment quality? Not a bad idea. You may get good eq value but bad stats on it, so you may roll that item using rare/expensive mats.

My suggested rnd changes will affect the low boundary of item stats, i.e let’s imagine you want to get an item X. One of its stats (S) is in the range [100, 180]. The more times you get an item X the higher becomes low boundary of that range, let’s say it may become after several iterations something like this [105, 180].
The game still uses a random number in that [105, 180] range, and you will never see stat S value below 105.

None of this will happen as it does not fit at all with the loot system inplementation of GD.

As to a range gradually changing from 100 - 180 to 105 - 180, that change is so minimal, you might as well not bother. If that isn’t the immediate first step with many more steps to follow, this is completely pointless to me…

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