Hey guys, I’m back again to collect present conversion-based retalitation builds.
As we know, conversion-based retalitation will have extra bonus from Cunning/Spirit.
For example, if you have 100 flat fire retalitation, +900% all retalitation damage, 430 Spirit (which means +200% all magic damage, including aether), and 50% fire to aether, then altogether you will have:
Fire retal: 100 x (1-50%) x (100% + 900%) = 500, and
aether retal: 100 x 50% x (100% + 900% +200%) = 600
Let’s call it cunning/spirit boost. Z has said that cunning/spirit boost is a bug and is going to be fixed in v1.1.9.7.
However, retalitaion builds are generally limited to phys/fire/elec/acid, or conversion is involved. That is to say, a lot of interesting conversion based retal builds are going to suffer from Cunning/Spirit boost removing, though they don’t dump cunning/spirit apart from item reqs.
This is why I post this topic. Let’s post here our conversion-based retal builds and how they perform. Ideas on how to retune it are also welcomed.
Firstly, I’ve talked about Beronath ele2phys retal. Both RF WL and DE DK are tested and posted in another topic of mine. See it here: Beronath, Reforged, Sword of Shame
Chaos retal DE. It sucks. But at least better than beronath lmao. Honestly the main beneficiaries of the retal conversion bug were the ones who converts their retal to the main damage types, especially phys since retal does cunning dump. And all of them got nerfed already. The recent outlier (and probably the only one that’s still good now) is Pierce Aegis which edges out phys because of armor changes.
I’ve tried chaos DE as outlined above based on the fact that none of the mage nemeses are resistant to chaos but Reaper takes so long to kill it’s not worth it. I also didn’t wanna abuse the bug just in case it turned out great, but even if I spirit dumped there it wouldn’t be good.
I also made a tool for Aether retal DE once but deleted it cause it had like 2.5k OA after all the cunning dumps in the world.
What I was wondering but didn’t have the time to tool was fire>acid conversion since it’s easy to get with just one item and oathkeeper. Most likely on DE cause aegis gets convoluted. But I don’t think it gets anywhere close to Sentinel Set performance, which is still the best overall retal build currently imo.
Then it’s gonna have reduced retal values, as is common for these type of changes. Then I’m just gonna use pagar lmao. Credit to @banana_peel btw, he’s the one who first tried that dagger.
It’s like 6:15ish. Damage is acceptable as a non-mainstream retal build(Maybe a little bit slower than average of all builds). Tankiness is not good and not like a retal build but like a vitality build, which has a lot of life leech but is not concrete enough.
Would suffer from a -220% aether retal loss cause by Spirit boost removing, so I would suggest a 220% retal damage compensation in v1.1.9.7 to keep it as it is in v1.1.9.6.
I disagree with this part. As hilarious these conversion builds might be, they’re still not the intended retal damage types. I’d rather have zantai focus on putting the intended retals on a better state, cause as it stands right now the only real viable retal builds all around are Sentinel set variations, RF warlord that has no damage but is very tanky, and retal DE to a degree. And aegis that keeps getting nerfed.
Then the point is, should these interesting hilarious conversion-based builds die, even if they are not broken and there is some way to keep it least affected (for example add some % retal damage to the conversion items)? Should retal builds be restricted to the 4 offically supported types(phys, fire, elec and acid)?
If possible, I’d like to see cunning/spirit boost being remained but limited to 250% so that anyone abusing it is punished but the others are untouched.
That’s not conflict to what I posted. As long as there appears enough feedbacks, there is going to be a good solution to keep all those reasonable ones least affected, by linear combination. That’s why I did this collection and hope to get as many ideas as possible.
Since I haven’t got enough ideas from you guys, I decided to do Cold, Pierce, Vitality, Aether and Chaos retal builds (which are not offically supported) by my own, and try to find out something that could possibly be a compensation for Cunning/Spirit Boost removing. Here are my works:
Vitality: 1326 fire(or elec) retal flat, or 90% retal damage + 710 fire(or elec) retal flat, or 210% retal damage.
Aether: 1000 fire retal flat, or 90% retal damage + 550 fire retal flat, or 215% retal damage.
Chaos: 1681 fire retal flat, or 90% retal damage + 1152 fire retal flat, or 180% retal damage + 700 fire retal flat, or 340% retal damage.
Then let’s see what these builds have in common. They are mainly devotion Messenger of War, Hyrian and Phoenix. These three devotions are widely used by fire retal builds, so let’s take a look at how fire retal builds perform:
They are not so good as well, considering that they are none-shield and much less tanky than shield ones, they deserve some more damage love I think.
So I would suggest add altogether 90% retal damage and 700 fire retal flat to these three devotions. The bigger part is the fire retal flat so we don’t have to worry that they would be abused by physical retal because there is no more armor bypass.
