Individual Pet Analysis

Overview:
Pet builds require pets to deal damage, and to be effective they require a balance between the number of pets and how strong those pets are. I’ve made, played, and thoroughly explored a lot of pet builds so thought it might be useful to share my thoughts on the individual pets in Grim Dawn, and how they are used in various builds. I’m not going to discuss item summoned pets from lower level items.

Special thanks to thepowerofmediocrity, Sneaky Parrot, DaShiv, and others for the contributions to the pet community over the years

Also to Crate for making an awesome game, and all the work that I know goes into that.

General Observations:
Before I get into specific pets, I wanted to make a few general observations.

Pet Skills (Ember Claw, Lightning Strike, etc):
A lot of the pet skills are very powerful, but aside from the auras none of them are generally worth investing in unless you are able to summon multiple of that pet. This is particularly impactful for Hellhounds. Itemization for pet skills is pretty lacking overall.

Itemization:
Most equipment slots have several good options for a pet build to select from, but there are two slots that are particularly lacking in useful pet options. The most common pants I use on pet builds are Mythical Chausses of Barbaros, and on a large number of builds Cataclysm’s Eye is the best off-hand. I tend to pretty much always use the same Gloves (Mythical Overlord’s Iron Grip) and Boots (Mythical Fiendflesh Greaves), but at least those are pet oriented items.

Crucible Buffs:
It’s a cool idea to have pets get an extra bonus if they are buffed and don’t die, but in practice it ends up being applicable to very few pets, and has the effect of exacerbating balance issues by giving a bonus to already stronger builds.

Dominant Builds:
There are currently effectively 3 archetypes for top-tier pet builds. Familairs, Beastcaller’s, and Skeletons(mostly with Witching Hour). There are lots of other pet builds setups which can clear the campaign, and even some that can reasonably clear the crucible but they tend to land on the fringe, be generally less effective, and/or be far less flexible (Wraith, Blight Fiend, and Hellhound builds are all far less flexible).

This isn’t awful considering there are only 3 classes with major support for pets, but it is extremely hard to make effective pet builds combining with the other classes outside of Familiar/Beastcaller builds. It’d be nice to see more items that boost both pets and non-pet class support skills (IEE, Flaming Touch, etc). Very few such items exist.

Devotions:
Pet support from Devotions is pretty good overall, but even with the 1.0.6.0 buffs to Mogdrogen it’s still the worst of the T3 pet devotions. It’s fine when considered in isolation but devotion setups using the other T3 pet devotions have access to far more critically important movement speed and resistance options making it a huge sacrifice to take Mogdrogen, one that rarely pays off.

Class Pet Skills:
Summon Familiar:
The damage dealt by Ravens scales very effectively with skill points, increasing both damage and number of projectiles. Only a single item slot is required to summon two ravens, and there is a ton of itemization options to boost the skill, making it easy to hit 26/16. There are also a lot of pet items boosting Lightning damage, and Lightning Resistance Reduction is pretty common. The pet also has some really good skills. Lightning Strike is the best offensive pet skill and definitely worth investing in despite the sparsity of items that boost the skill. Storm Spirit provides both flat damage and % elemental damage, and provides a significant resistance bonus making it useful on any pet build, and even some non-pet builds. I have never found Mend Flesh to be very effective. I am a huge fan of healing skills on pet builds, but the few times I’ve tried using this skill I’ve never noticed any impact from it. It’s likely I haven’t used it enough in the right circumstance to get a feel for its benefit.

In my opinion, Summon Familiar is currently the best pet skill in the game. They are almost as powerful on their own as Witching Hour Skeletons, much more durable, and very easy to equip for. You can make a lot of variations of Familiar builds, using a lot of different supporting classes, skills, and pets.

Summon Hellhound:
The Hellhound has a ton of potential that most players overlook. His attack damage is terrible, at 26/16 it deals less than damage a single Swarmling, but he’s pretty fast and can use Celestial Powers. Ember Claw is really quite good, and is used pretty frequently. Infernal Breath seems to be really good against single targets but mostly useless against weaker enemies because most of the ticks will miss while the hound switches targets. The Hellfire Aura is also quite good, but outside of Chaos builds it is strictly worse than Storm Spirit which provides resistance in addition to it’s damage.

The main problem for Hellhounds is that you need the Shepherd of Lost Souls set to summon two Hellhounds, and that uses amulet, head, and weapon slots which prevents the use of the vast majority of items with interesting bonuses to Hellhound. I think Hellhounds would actually be in a good place if it was more reasonable to summon 2 of them, but instead it is prohibitively difficult to make them useful. Equipment options boosting Ember Claw and Infernal Breath, while they exist, are usually way too far from best in slot to be used.

Summon Briarthorn:
Briarthorns deal mediocre damage, are decently tough, and relatively slow. They are a decent pet, and part of one of the most successful and versatile pet build archetypes, but Briarthorns frustrate me for a lot of reasons. Their damage is okay, but certainly not good. It is split between Physical and Pierce, and Pierce is almost entirely unsupported for pet builds second only to Aether and some forms of DoT.

Itemization for Briarthorns is pretty bad. There are a decent number of items with skill bonuses for Briarthorn but you can’t use very of them at the same time, or they are outclassed by other items in the same slot. If you’re planning to use Briarthorns offensively, you almost have to use the Beastcaller’s set which while it gives you a second Briarthorn it only gives +2 to the skill while preventing a lot of other items with Briarthorn bonuses. On almost all Beastcaller builds I find Mythical Heart of the Mountain more useful than other amulet alternatives, preferring the extra pet to make up for Briarthorns lack of power. Bloodsworn Codex is wildly outclassed by +1 to all skills.

Emboldening Presence is extremely useful, mostly for the physical resist. Bleed resist is easy to come by for players, and for pets it’s only really needed for skeletons which pair much more effectively with Occultist anyway. Ground Slam is not very good. It’s used less often and deals far less damage than to Lightning Strike, and the few items that boost it either conflict with Beastcaller’s or aren’t otherwise worth using. Even with 2 Briarthorns, I only take Ground Slam when I have no other obvious use of skill points.

Despite my frustrations with this skill, I think it is overall in a decent place. It would be nice to see the pet more useful as a build centerpiece rather than an extra pair of meat shields, but at the end of the day they are an important part of a huge range of great pet builds.

Summon Primal Spirit:
This guy is great. He’s very strong and very fast, takes relatively low skill point investment and is very easy to itemize for. Even at his base uptime of 50% he is useful, but it’s fairly easy to bring his uptime into the 80+% range between items and Time Dilation. You can’t make a top tier build around just this pet, but with this easy itemization and high burst power he is a great asset to any Shaman base pet build, and an integral part of Beastcaller builds.

I think this pet is in a great spot. He’s strong, very useful, but not overpowered.

Raise Skeletons:
I imagine that skeletons are a very difficult pet skill to balance correctly, and I don’t think their balance issues are any particular secret. They deal medicore damage and die very easily, but there are a lot of them so their numbers magnify flat damage bonuses. If they can kill things within a couple of seconds they dominate, otherwise they start to die and things fall apart very quickly. There is a very thin line between them steamrolling everything and getting completely destroyed.

They are great in the campaign up until Ultimate where they start to die a lot more, but even with self-found gear they can easily finish the campaign with a little patience. The place where their balance issues are really brought to light is the Crucible and Super Bosses. While being an integral part of the most powerful current pet build, they have extremely little room for build versatility. Skeletons have a ton of available itemization, but the vast majority of the legendaries are Cabalist focused, which doesn’t help their diversity problem.

I think it’d be good if skeletons were a little bit more robust - mainly because it is far too easy for AoE attacks to kill all of your skeletons simultaneously, even with good resists - and I think it’d probably be good to increase their base damage while proportionally decreasing their attack speed, so they keep the same base DPS while reducing the impact of flat damage bonuses. The Witching Hour is also still way too powerful, but that is mostly a separate issue. It’d probably be best if the item didn’t bonus Skeletons/Necromancers skills while synergizing heavily with the already powerful Dying God.

Summon Blight Fiend:
Blight Fiends have great AoE damage and some decent crowd control and debuffs, but are fairly slow with their attacks and that means that even with 3 of them using the Unstable Anomaly they are not particularly strong against single targets. This leaves them somewhat lacking of a niche of their own, as skeletons already deal great area damage due to their numbers, while being more effective on single targets. The Blight Fiends pet skills are both really good and worth investing in.

There are a ton of itemization that supports Blight Fiends, including a lot of otherwise useful items that boost the Blight Fiends skills, making it common to invest a single point in each for significant benefit. As with skeletons, the vast majority of items are Cabalist focused, and since there are not many resistance reduction options for Acid/Poison, these too are not very viable outside of Cabalist builds.

I think Blight Fiends are a okay when looked at in isolation, but in most builds they fill the same role as Hellhounds - a single point in the summon with a single point in one or two of the skills. They are possible to build around, but barely.

Reap Spirit:
The Wraiths are quite strong, but they come with some serious downsides. They have very short lifetime, you can’t summon them without attacking enemies, and they can’t proc Celestial Powers with their attacks. I know Crate likes to encourage active summoner playstyles, but this is the more extreme case as you don’t have your summons until after you’ve started the fight and it takes time to ramp them up.

The Diviner set helps significantly with their uptime but the set doesn’t provide very strong bonuses to pets otherwise. There are a lot of other items that boost the skill, and a couple of them provide nice pet bonuses but a lot of them do not, geared more towards the initial attack aspect of the skill. Their damage type combination does not really synergize with any existing skills or items, and also makes them very hard to use outside of Conjurer/Cabalist builds which can both reduce both elemental and vitality resistance. The available itemization for Reap Spirit also makes them relatively hard to meaninffully combine them with other pets.

Overall I think the wraiths are pretty good, but it’d be nice if there were less restrictive ways to make them useful as pets because it leaves very little room for effective variety.

Item Pet Skills:
Summon Swarmlings (Primal Instict):
These guys used to be the centerpiece of a lot of pet builds. These days they aren’t enough to provide the primary source of damage for a pet build, but they are a great and meaningful addition to almost any build that uses pets. These fit a similar role to Primal Spirit in that regard.

That said, I end up using these on the vast major of pet builds I’ve played I use these because they alone are more valuable than the benefits of any other relic for pet builds except when Mogdrogen’s Ardor is needed to provide a 10th skill point bonus for Familiars, or Aether/Chaos from resistance for skeletons in the Crucible.

Summon Skeletal Servant (Dirge of Akrovia):
Skeletal Servant is pretty good, and the relic he’s on is also pretty good, but the majority of the time Necromancer builds are better off using Mogdrogen’s Ardor, Bysmiel’s Domination, or even Primal Instinct. A pet with these stats on an Occultist or Shaman relic he’d be used a lot, Necromancers already have a large number of pets on the field so he really doesn’t stand out.

Summon Chillmane (Mythical Heart of the Mountain):
Chillmane is decent. It’s damage is okay, it’s got some useful AoE skills, it’s reasonably fast, and can take a few hits. The main thing I have to say about Chillmane is that it pairs very well with the Beastcaller’s set, and because of this is by far the most used Item based pet skill for me. The bonuses on the item, plus the pet it provides are enough to outweigh any alternative for that slot on Beastcaller builds. This pet/item combination is good enough to be used, but not so good to be required, especially outside of the crucible.

Summon Revenant (Mythical Black Grimoire of Og’Napesh):
This pet and item to me are worse versions of Chillmane + Heart of the Mountain. The pet deals similar damage but is slower, the pet bonuses are lower, and the skill bonuses are less useful. The skill bonuses are geared towards skeleton builds, but for skeleton builds this pet isn’t particularly useful.

On the whole he’s not bad but not special. I almost always prefer +1 all skills from my off-hands, even without any pet bonuses.

Call Forth the Harbinger (Salazar’s Sovereign Blade):
This pet looks really impressive on paper, having huge damage, pretty good uptime, and some useful abilities, but he is incredibly slow so his damage output is really quite low.

Because of how slow he is, I find the Harbinger effectively useless in the campaign as by the time he reaches enemies they are usually already dead. He has some use during boss fights, but that doesn’t really warrant the item slot. In the Crucible I find the Harbinger a little more useful because you don’t need to chase down enemies or cover a lot of distance, but I still rarely use him.

Bysmiel’s Command:
The Eldritch Hound is one of the least useful pets in the game. He is really far too weak for the effort required to attain him and the need to bind an additional skill to the Celestial Power.

Absolutely everything in this post aligns 100% with my experience playing pet builds, and I have a few now, except for the part about familiars but that’s only because I haven’t gotten around to focusing on them yet :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

And that’ll be my next endeavor. I did find some guys build for double hellhounds : https://www.grimtools.com/calc/b283l8yN
and it was quite effective. But it did make use of others.

I agree about blightfiends, even in my builds that use them they can end up feeling like an after thought. Sometimes their AoE goes off just right and it’s great but often these lumbering fatties don’t measure up to my other pets.

I have particularly strong feelings toward your feedback on the pets granted from items because those are extremely accurate and I’d love to see work done on Dirge, Og’Napesh, Salazar’s and Bysmiel’s Command. In Cornucopia we made it summon 2 instead of 1 and I think they still needed a damage boost to be worth taking over other constellation options. And because pets from items are unique and cool I want them to be viable. They don’t need to be tightly balanced to the point of being super competitive but the margin does seem a little too wide on those four for them to be taken into consideration anymore.

Agree on T3 Mog constellation. As for pants, mythical wildshorn or well rolled (if you’re willing to pull your hair out farming) Bysmiel pants can work. For feet same story with Stoneplate Greaves, but honestly you’re essentially correct because that’s taking surviving Gladiator Crucible into mind. If you’re looking to optimize DPS and ease of just making a pet build functional, Barbaros and Fiendflesh have been my go to as well.

Fantastic post.

Agred with every thing except this:

Dominant Builds:
There are currently effectively 3 archetypes for top-tier pet builds. Familairs, Beastcaller’s, and Skeletons(mostly with Witching Hour). There are lots of other pet builds setups which can clear the campaign, and even some that can reasonably clear the crucible but they tend to land on the fringe, be generally less effective

First of all witching hour is kinda broken so it’s not a fair comparison.:stuck_out_tongue: I’d just say some builds need a bit more flat dmg.

and this:

Call Forth the Harbinger (Salazar’s Sovereign Blade):
This pet looks really impressive on paper, having huge damage, pretty good uptime, and some useful abilities, but he is incredibly slow so his damage output is really quite low.

Harbinger is not a fighter he is a caster and can be quite OP in some situations, This is what you want from him:

Spectral Miasma
The Chthonic curse saps all of your defenses.
50 Energy Cost
6 Second Duration
12 Meter Radius
1 Meter Radius
-15% Total Speed
-15% Physical Resistance
-31% Fire Resistance
-31% Cold Resistance
-31% Lightning Resistance
-31% Poison & Acid Resistance
-37% Vitality Resistance
-22% Chaos Resistance

I guess it depends on high tightly you define effective. There are a wide variety of pet builds but what he outlined concurs with what I find strong. I haven’t played them all yet so there could be more.

The spell is good but I just checked the dbrs and there are a couple things to note:
The target radius is actually 4 meters. Not sure where you got 12, maybe that’s its cast range but the debuff itself only affects a 4 meter radius.
The Harbinger himself only casts it every 10 seconds.

I’ll happily admit the dude’s debuff is better than I realized but the effect radius is kind of tiny and frankly when you’re character is built your pets tend to clean things up before the buff can do anything. Useful against bosses I guess? But pets focus down bosses as a group and melt them anyway. I still think the Harbinger pet is sub par.

Also worth noting that pet AI isn’t the best. So for anyone thinking 4 meters is generous enough, what if the pet casts it on a monster that charged early? Then it’s wasted on a trash mob. Or maybe it casts it on the edge of a group, not hitting many of them. 4 meters is not super effective when you factor this in I think.

He’s really slow, in all regards yes

The debuff looks better than it is because Superfluff linked to the enemy version of Salazar’s Harbringer which does have a 12m radius but it’s used against us. The pet one we get to control has the tiny 4m radius and only has -15%RR across the board instead of that sexy 30+ %RR displayed.

After playing with Blight Fiends I can say easily the most frustrating thing is that you need Circlet of the Great Serpent to make the builds work and it doesn’t come with even a small 4% CDR. Nor does Blightstone Invoker. And the blight fiends only last like 12 seconds with the transmuter and they have to cast their aura when you summon them. And you actually have to cast it, and summoners don’t really get good cast speed.

If Blight Fiends lasted like 16-20 seconds it would be much more reasonable. You can get it to about a 3 second recast timer with good CDR rolls + bargoll’s core but that’s so much to ask for especially because the helmet you need is so vital to making the transmuter work and it doesn’t have CDR. And you’re so limited in what you can do in terms of the downtime while waiting for blight fiend to come up. The moment you drop from 3 to 2 blight fiends everything gets way more dangerous. Improving the lifespan, speeding up the speed at which it gets the rotting fumes up, something like that would help.

I will say that Salazar pet has a nice use in helping against gods in campaign (ravager/mogdrogen/lokarr) just because of the RR. Otherwise yeah it’s pretty meh because it’s so damn slow.

I wanted to touch on Devotions as a whole, as Sigatrev is right that when you take into consideration how good Primordial constellations just by themselves, how great Ishtak is for pet builds, and how well Ishtak synergizes with Dying God / Hourglass, there are very good reasons why none of the newly risen Gladiator builds bother to look at the Green / Purple devotion route:

  • Lizard (which helps a lot with mitigating Dying God’s health drain), Bull (a very good devotion skill to bind to pets), Sailor’s Guide (Physical + Slow Resistance), Lion (nice Health + affinity bonuses), and Eel (great DA & affinity bonuses) all have Movespeed bonuses. None of the Green/Purple devotions have any good Movespeed bonuses.
  • As quoted above, Bysmiel pet is nice (I love the OA reduction buff myself), but it’s hardly anything to get excited over. The first two nodes are great, but after that, there’s not much reason to take the rest of the constellation. The fact that it requires 4 Chaos affinity to even take (same with Manticore) gives no help with maximizing your devotion point usage.
  • Mogdrogen only has a total of 110% pet damage. Dying God, on the other hand, has 90% Total damage and 10% Crit Damage, not to say about the huge amount of Crit in the proc itself. Mogdrogen should behave like other definitive T3 devotions and have 180% pet damage.
  • What other Devotion Procs can pets take good advantage of that has good synergy with Mogdrogen? Falcon is universally derived as a poor proc (plus the 4 nodes leading up to it are laughable), Oleron / Blind Fury is okay due to the large %Weapon Damage, but the flat damage is much worse than other devotions. Attak Seru has amazing defensive nodes but it comes with a terrible devotion proc. Meteor Shower is the opposite situation: good proc, especially when combined with Flame Torrent / Eldritch Fire / Swarmlings, but two of the 4 nodes needed to grab it are useless for pet builds.
  • Crane makes most of the Green/Purple nodes obsolete by itself - not only does it grant great affinity (5 Order for 5 nodes) for getting Ishtak, but it reduces Spirit Requirements for off-hands (meaning more DA), gives good resistances to both player and pets, and not a single node is wasted.

Here are a few suggestions to help make the Green / Purple devotion route more worth it:

  • Take the Reduced Spirit Requirements from Dryad and give it to Scholar’s Light. There’s no reason for Order to have both of these great nodes.
  • Give Falcon Move Speed + other things and reduce the recharge time on the proc to make people want to take those nodes.
  • Increase the pet resistances in Empty Throne similar to how you have it with Crane - instead of 8% player and 8% pets, make it 8% player and 12 (or 15)% pets
  • Increase the pet Pierce resistance on Wolverine from 10% to 15-20%. Pierce resistance is a very difficult resistance for pets to get - and practically impossible if you’re not playing Shaman.
  • Buff Oleron’s proc to give more Physical damage. It has 85 Piercing damage (for a T3 devotion?) and some DoT’s, but where’s the Physical damage?
  • In addition to increasing the damage so it better aligns with other T3 devotions, add some movement speed to Mogdrogen, either though the nodes or with the proc. Wolves should not be slow, they go fast!
  • The proc with Huntress is amazing, but outside the 5% pet OA node, the player is sacrificing a lot to get it. Either add Speed, more resistances, something that doesn’t make it a chore just to have access to that proc.
  • Add flat defensive ability to Quill and other constellations in the bottom row.

Even with those things, it’s hard to give up Dying God / Hourglass / Ishtak to take up Mogdrogen, but giving the player more defensive options in the Green/Purple area will definitely help.

Well these are some weird opinions… I never noticed the Familiar to have a higher damage than the Hellhound (when testing them against a target dummy), and the Briarthorn certain outclasses both in damage and resilience. Not to mention that its aura is the best thing ever for a pet build since it affects all your pets damage/resistance, and should be maxed. I run a Conjurer with all three permanent pets and Primal Spirit maxed, and I just steamrolled Theodin Marcell, poor guy was not even able to kill a single pet. I even did Mad Queen runs - about 25 or so -to get her 94th level claw for my Blademaster, and while sure, she can kill my pets with her life drain aura, it was a luck thing, sometimes she managed to take them down, other times they took her down before that happened.
The Familar’s main use is the same as the Nightmare was in Titan Quest, that the birdie is ignored by most enemies, and downright unkilleable by most enemies - they only focus on it after all your other pets are dead. I used Bysmiel’s Will for a while, but eventually found that Sovereign Ruby of Domination is better. Unlike the Cabalists who have a similar skill (Call of the Grave) to use for hero battles, the Conjurer needs this more. Of course, will replace it once I complete the Mythical Beastcaller set, for now I am running with the Mythical Mogdrogen set.
Oh and Ground Slam is amazing, it stuns enemies - so your pets can rip them apart more easily. Sure it does not need many points in it, but it is really useful.
I always invest in the Eldritch Hound, because one more pet is always useful. Not to mention, that with a Conjurer you WILL need more pets for more damage and to occupy the enemy, and with a Cabalist, you will have already invested in pet acid+poison damage for the Blight Fiend that also benefits the Hound. Even if all this was not true, that constellation is one of the stones in the road to whichever final goal you want to have, so you will be using it anyway. Additionally… I never really saw the Hound dying so far in all my playthroughs, at least not by enemy damage, so maybe it is also sort-of ignored like the Familiar. My only wish is if it - and Skeletons - could have an icon so we could set them on Agressive mode.

About Skeletons, one thing I have not seen mentioned anywhere - what damage to they do? I mean sure the skill lists physical+vitality… But the Skeletal Mages obviously use fire nova and some fire version of Trozan’s Sky Shard, and the Revenants use the 3-projectile Chaos Bolt spell that Riftstone gives you. So I wonder… any way to check the exact damage done?
I also wish the Shaman or Occultist had a specific relic with a new pet to summon, same as the Necromancer. Swarmlings I used for a while but ultimately found them too slow - by the time they reach an enemy the battle is usually over.

What’s so great about Bysmiel’s pants? People always say that but I never understood why. It gives a set x% offensive ability for pets but that’s all. Unless you want to kill that poor hellhound guardian over and over again for one that drops with one of the pet-bonus prefixes, but in all my playthroughs that never happened for me. So I am using Rifthound Legwraps until the Wildshorn drops for me someday.

The transmuter for the Blight Fiend is not really for pet builds. It is for “corpse explosion”/exploding minions Diablo-style builds, really that focus on poison damage. You want to summon them quickly and let them die quickly, so their improved death explosions can clear the room. I want to make such a Cabalist someday, focusing on Dreeg’s Eye/Ravenous Earth and supplementing it with exploding Blight Fiends. :slight_smile:

The main problem for Hellhounds is that you need the Shepherd of Lost Souls set to summon two Hellhounds, and that uses amulet, head, and weapon slots which prevents the use of the vast majority of items with interesting bonuses to Hellhound.

This is a big point. 1 amulet alone gives 2x familiar.

Thus, the set SoLS set will likely never be used. Even if you did for some odd reason… want to use SoLS, the chances are that you will find/trade the one ammy before you find the full 4-piece SoLS.

I’d suggest simply evolving the SolS into something else and sticking a competing ammy for +1 Hellhounds, so that you could decide which one you want x2.

In fact, imho better balance would be ultimately achieved by restricting the extra pet of all kinds to the same slot to ultimately have one +1 pet overall from items. But that is unlikely to happen with +1 pets all over the map on items.


Summon Primal Spirit:
This guy is great. He’s very strong and very fast, takes relatively low skill point investment and is very easy to itemize for. Even at his base uptime of 50% he is useful, but it’s fairly easy to bring his uptime into the 80+% range between items and Time Dilation. You can’t make a top tier build around just this pet, but with this easy itemization and high burst power he is a great asset to any Shaman base pet build, and an integral part of Beastcaller builds.

This relic might be a tad strong. It’s very easy to have 5 out almost all the time. Full pet bonuses and flat damage each.

It is expensive in relics, but everyone will have that capacity eventually.

I’d suggest removing the +1 to skills. And maybe limiting to 4 spawns.

First off, you qouted someone about Summon Primal Spirit, a shaman skill and than wrote your oppinion about Primal Instinct, a relic, which is little bit confusing :).

On topic, Primal Instinct is already went through one of the hardest nerf sessions in GD since i’m around, and while it’s not bad at all, people rarely pick it over Bysmiel’s Domination or Mogdrogen’s Ardor so i don’t think it needs any more nerfs.

Though i’m not an expert on pet builds at all so threat my opinion accordingly.

This line piqued my curiosity as I’ve had this ambition for a while - to combine Nature’s Guardian with Dying God. However, I found that neither works well without Time Dilation (absolutely necessary for Witching Hour) and/or huge CDR (not attainable from most top pet gear). Taking all 3 - Ishtak, DG and TD - seems impossible without some real desperate/irrational moves.

Has anyone ever figured it out?

There’s nothing strong about the Primal Instinct Relic. DaShiv’s old Dracarris build - that focuses on the Swarmlings - is unviable compared to more standard pet builds; and my own Deceiver build that also focused on building flat damage for Swarmlings also fell apart once it started facing rougher content.

It’s a useful relic for class combinations that don’t have a lot of natural pets, but there’s no reason this relic should be nerfed.