I do not understand your/@Gnomish_Inquisition 's problem with affix transfer. This idea that it’ll suddenly stop MI farming is just speculative BS, fear of unexplored territory.
You still need to farm a well-rolled MI base.
You still need to farm a well-rolled prefix.
You still need to farm a well-rolled suffix.
You still need to do all three of those for any slot you want occupied by a non-Legendary.
You still need to do all four of those for any character you want to make.
More determinism/player agency is not a bad thing. We’re 8 years into post-release development updates and many of these have involved easier access to loot acquisition to lessen the arduousness of grinding/narrow the gap between those that GDStash builds and those that don’t.
If you want to make this system “punishing”, first of all ask yourself what kind of sadistic fuck you have to be to be interested in punishing your playerbase. Then, if you still want to be sadistic, you can increase the stat variance ranges so that “well-rolled” becomes more subjective/character-/build-dependent.
And all of this can be done without inventing drastically new tech beyond some UI elements, as the GDLeague has shown. Less tech investment = less dev time investment = more dev time elsewhere = better improvements to other areas of the game.
i’ll address this with what i said earlier, which might have been missed or forgotten by players that have played with regular rares filtered out these days:
it’s as simple as that
unsure when people last levelled through the game, and kept rares on
or just tried to go through a brief run as 90+ with rares on
it will cover any affix need for said char and several to comes
and there is a, imo, massive difference vs making loot more generous, vs basically implementing GDstash as a feature or “as close to” as this comes
not what i’m saying
you’re conflating punishing with “not too generous”
and if you’ve paid attention to most of my suggestion and comments over time you’d be aware that i applaud most of GD’s generosity, having a certain limit on generosity is not inherently sadistic, thank you
let me afford you a more detailed answer on some no points then
because what makes the MI strong is the modifiers, vast majority of MIs are infact carried so much by their base stats rarely do the rolls actually matter in terms of meaningful performance gains, outside peak max rolled items; on most of your char’s slots
*i have tested and tried this several times and is why i don’t even bother spending time high rollign sht for meme test anymore, a build will be more than functional with basically “any” roll and specially then on avg the avg rolls you’ll get
unless you have a char with several bottom rolled MIs+affixes across the board vs a char with all high rolled, there will be no real meaningful impact on avg, the variance isn’t that great on a per item basis that it’s going to matter outside the top of the top OCD/record chasers or “theoretical performance in action”
*notice i didn’t say all since stuff relying on global conversion is ofc a thing too, among others
this is in part shared by the above, where, unless you get mega screwed by RNGesus and get more than statistically unlucky and bottom roll your affixes it wont actually impact “regular” performance that much
but is also tied in to the following i mentioned
(which also still covers the subsequent points you raised)
you will get so many regular rares with the same affixes, ex 10x plaguebearers, that there is just no statistically way you will bottom roll all 10 or not get a single decent one
that takes care of both the reroll concern/“farming” requirement; but because of the sheer amount also takes care of more than a single char need
and dare i say, you wont even actually have to farm on said char to obtain those dozens upon dozens of spare affixes to freely choose from, because just levelling through Ultimate after lvl 85 you will receive an utter ocean of rares on that single char your biggest hassle is going to be actually picking them up and deciding to hoard it for affix swap or not
again, when did people last actually play through the game with rares on to think affix acquisition would be even a remote minute concern or trouble, let alone something that requires “farming” or repeat farming?
All of the above factoring against each other for each additional piece of gear you’re doing this for, because depending on how your gear bases/affixes roll, you may need more of a certain stat elsewhere or could afford to take a hit to a stat on one or two slots. That whole decision making thing, you know?
The most important thing that this proposed concept does is that it makes currently-worthless items more valuable. Drop an item with two clashing affixes or on an MI that doesn’t really mesh? If the rolls are solid, it could still be worth keeping. Loot drops should be exciting. When was the last time you cared about an item drop that wasn’t a perfect triple rare? When was the last time you cared about a non-MI drop?
And if the idea of “you’ll be swimming in usable items” is really that much of a concern to you, just bloody drop less. I’ve been telling Crate to drop fewer items but of higher quality for SIX FUCKING YEARS AT THIS POINT. So yes, @tqFan, I am passionate about this subject.
The thing is, when you start introducing features like this, it raises the power ceiling for everything immediately. Then Crate either has to make enemy content to match (which you probably don’t want), or the impact of individual items/affixes needs to be dropped to compensate, in which case we essentially wind up relatively close to where we are now. It’d just take a ton more work.
The easier step is to just improve those outlier unique items at base that need X/Y improvements.
And it isn’t different from Enchants. But the game has been adjusted already around their presence.
i’m saying it as contrast to some that claimed farming for it would still be necessary/not go away
to highlight the “missed” part about us getting so many
if you’re asking me if i think a game/the game should have “some” amount of farming i’d say yes, and in that perspective total removal of farming would then be a detractor imo - but that’s not why/how i said that explanation merely clarifying what seemed to skipped
cool; then you know/agree we get showered in rares that waht i’m saying is not BS
not unless on all slots
straight up no
not a thing/concern
this is key, and i mentioned this; you need to bottom roll many slots, and that’s just not gonna happen “on avg”, let alone with the affix flood we get for free
*i’ve made build prior that straight up relied on high rolling stuff like resist, because couldnt’ even reach softcap with avg rolls let alone overcaps
but, that’s not a thing when we get 100 affixes to chose from with how many the game serves us; you wont min rolls every piece of gear, dare i say even just multiple this way (it’s just too improbable vs amount)
(and with resist increases over the past years it’s just not happening anymore either)
i would disagree, in part because of the previous mention; we don’t really need, i stress need, well rolled MIs for a decent char
and, because of the aforementioned flood of affixes; they dont’ become valuable, they get devalued; affix inflation - and we’re just gonna siphon stuff up and swallow the one that’s better and better and better going through 100 common drops
the “hassle” will be time/actually bothering to glance over the affix to see if it’s higher(which i don’t even see how we could do/without some way to see the exact values we’d just be swallowing and slapping on affixes at random hoping the higher stats came from prefix/suffix used and not another part)
again, i’d say this doesnt’ make them more exiting simply because of the flood we get… it best it’s gonna be a tedium to sort through whcih roll might be better
and suppose you could say that is it’s own issue/part of why GD items aren’t “exciting” we simply get so many of them, fast/“whenever” in abundance without a thought/concern
but, they don’t, so until that does happen (and if you recall i’ve also suggested to overhaul the loot tiers, tho in different style), then what i’m saying is currently the reality, which means my take on it is what follows based on that current system…
another way to make it “rare” could be to only allow MI-MI affix transfer, but that would then perhaps be seen as also bad/needlessly restrictive etc
but unless there is something, currently i dont’ remotely see how free affix transfer wouldnt’ be a net negative/detractor by being too easy and free and about as close to getting GDstash in the game
again, i looove GD’s generosity vs most other games, but, imo there is also a limit to being too generous where nothing feels exciting valuable or having much meaning
100% no doubt there will be people that see it as the exact opposite and “too generous” isn’t a thing or things should be even more generous than this proposal,
just personally i think it’s a bit too much
to elaborate on this
i went from GDstashing 6 pages or more of a single item, to get highest roll as i could manage, on all slots, to now just using the save editor creation once, and there is just no real significant difference outside the aforementioned "ocd/record chasing “theoretical performance in action”
and i can probably count on 1 hand the times i had to re-gdstash an item because the editor creation bottom rolled resist stats enough that it needed to be subsequently fixed
likewise my in play difference on a high rolled save vs the “avg”/rng editor creation is so small to nonexistent that it makes a bigger difference whether i’m “awake”/pumped that day and paying well attention to everything or just SR mutator/spawn RNG
*and when using the editor all slots with craft bonuses gets nothing, so those 8-16% cc res or 2x4% physique/armour is being played without
and that’s just on the regular front, it’s far removed from the make it break it playable nature of stats/XY stat breakpoints where a build goes from “playable” to “non-functioning”…
heck, at some point i even stashed a char without an affix on some slots just to see how big a difference it was vs my “fantasy” creation that got called out as unrealistic… and even missing a full affix on one or two slots there was just no discernable “meaningful” difference (tho that was also already in ultra meme range so little to be made up)
or TLDR; a shit build doesnt’ go from shit to great just because you above avg roll several slots
and a good build doesn’t become crap/unplayable just because you low rolled a couple slots
let alone just part of the slot/base item or one of the affixes…
Great then tell peeps to stop raising the ceiling by asking for buffs because it doesn’t match their personal build parameters and we’ll have a deal because that is the #1 drive for changes placed forth on this forum IMO.
Until such time power creep will continue and if we gonna have it then might as well turn the systems that need attention (bounties/crafting) into something more modern.
please don’t let the affix rerolling stuff be the best way to get MIs. MI farming in GD feels absolutely satisfying rn because you kill monster that drops what you want and that’s it, simple af. if it becomes like “just farm currency and anything below the most efficient way is garbage” then I would be quite sad.
rn rolling double (good) magic affix or non-matching damage type affix (chaos affix on cold MI etc.) on MI is actually difficult, so maybe it can fill that gap?
again I don’t want to see GD become just another currency farming simulator.
i legit don’t even think that’s the issue
because you see already strong builds getting buff requests
i think it’s more like A build was great, B build gets buffs or discovered as “greater”; now A build must gets buff to either be equal or better than B, despite A already previously being fine for their own parameters
i personally feel like the “nerf over performing/keep status quo on acceptable performing and buff underperforming” approach/“mantra” got replaced by
“buff most things, only nerf the real egregious outliers”
problem with that is, when you buff an underperforming build, it sometimes also results in many other getting buffed, just the shared nature of things when build variety uses part of teh same stuff
but when then buffing stuff that was technically already tolerable, we get more collateral buffs again, but also just incrementally raises the bar for what was already “fine”
i feel like it was easiest noticeable when crucible was used as a more “firm” metric for pass go build buff acceptance; stuff already in range kept getting requests to be buffed, and ofc overperforming stuff got called out as shouldn’t nerfed when nerfed
i feel like 1.2 was a huge powercreep patch, but it was also in part skewed by fundamentally changing SR with the dynamic portals, drastically cutting run time, and shifting away from Cruci being used as the baseline balancing metric
but even with 1.2.1 i feel like builds “across the board” are getting default stronger, i even raised it as an “issue” a couple times when there was disagreement with the current difficulty of the game.
Don’t get me wrong, i think it’s fine if poor performing builds get buffed, and some collateral build builds happening because of it is probably okay/acceptable too. But, to me, it seems like sometimes we’re playing different games based on teh feedback that’s sometimes left, where i often feel like i’m coming off as the negative grump/contrarian because what i’m reading vs what i’m “feeling”/playing just doesnt’ seem to line up; and the game difficulty gets nerfed/builds buffed as a result, which i at times struggle to “come to terms with”/fully understand
as if people “secretly” want more and more out of what there was already there, 5mins SR isn’t enough now; everything must be capable of 3min sr on a good run and all celestials (which is even more hilarious to me since Z has repeatedly stated they wont consider Celestials as a metric, and still end up doing sometimes when accommodating buff requests )
Yeah this is my point. That’s why I made the remark.
Also there are devotion choices/routes that people will scoff at and wouldn’t even bother trying because it might extent their clear times but would solve their issues.
Before the %phys res changes I was constantly testing builder. It solved my survivability issues (along with unused gear selections) and solved the issue without me having to come to this forum to ask for buffs because my build was underperforming.
I get why don’t agree with my take but it is genuinely how I see it. It should be up to us players to figure out how to make something viable and do so with compromise as opposed to coming to the forum asking for changes. Not everything will make the cut. But that’s how it should be. As of now just about anything hammered together appropriately will clear 65. It has to be higher because? It’s not loot as per z 65 vs 66+ has very little loot variance (IIRC) this meaning only bragging rights is left
No no, I agree with you 100%. The place where I am coming from is adding value back into some things that are just left on the ground. I won’t lie, any suggestion I’ve have given on this forum has been self serving.
D4’s current model of everything not legendary just gets left on the ground is what I would hope to avoid because it is starting to feel kinda like that.
75… or atleast i feel like my personal bar got raised to that with 1.2.1, (part of why i feel this is a big powercreep patch), before it was 65, but so much is able to clear 75 now i sorta defaulted to test new builds on that, and the success rate felt concerningly high, considering the otherwise metric of what shard 65/75 is stated being considered goal vs “flexing” shards
i think that probably in part conveys a lot of my otherwise longwinded “too easy” sentiment
75 being the new normal should be more concerning then most anything else I’ve said/suggested (IMO) as isn’t the jump from 65 to 75 stat wise for mobs pretty high? I don’t have the numbers at hand.
I guess I find it sad that outside of getting a better MI, everything is just kinda ignored at some point. I know this isn’t a new player or early player issue and more of a me issue.
I understand it causes power creep but as stated it’s already occurring and I wish it was with more purpose and via crafting as opposed to seemingly just shoring up stuff that might or shouldn’t have been buffed.
it is, but part of what made enemies so dangerous was significant phys dmg, which is now gone
there is still threats ofc, but with overall other stat increases we’ve had it seems easier to cover them on previous weak builds so you can now make up those shortfall with DA/HP stacking, defence layering and or stuff like regen
Don’t get me wrong, you probably wont have sucky builds or stuff that sorta roughed it through 65 breeze through 75 now. But i’ve had several chars and builds that couldn’t clear 75 before and stayed at 65, either clear 75 now or even clearing 75 comfortably so, with “regular” builds jumping at 75 as default test/not the same hesitation.
I still have weak builds that stays on 65, but they are sorta almost obviously lacking in something, yet a portion of prior weak builds feel fine on 75 now
And because of that i now consider 75 overall more approachable in general, gimmicks or not aside
I see you mentioned me. It’s not about punishing a player, but about making him feel good about getting something rare. Is it a punishment to tell a kid to wait for the dessert?
It is a bad thing. It dulls any sense of achievement. Makes “legendary” items not exciting anymore.
I think they want the new ascendant mode coming in foa to be a challenge, but not overbearing to a point players stop playing that mode due to the difficulty. So these buffs are going to make it a bit easier, and this will require better gear to compete with it
Also iirc, the degree of difficulty ascendant mode brings is at least SR75, or probably around 80-85
You mean like leaving them on the ground, especially sets because you can just craft the one craftable piece and transmute? I agree. Not very exciting. Blowing them up isn’t much better either when you have multiple 1k stacks of them without hoarding.
Of course this doesn’t effect new players or those with low playtimes. So rich player syndrome I guess. Doesn’t make it any better.
It all depends on how difficult it is and the rewards tied to it. But yeah it is the one hidden factor we don’t know much about that I hope Crate talks about soon.
I think that many of you have to accept the sad truth that when you had played a game for thousands of hours the excitement you feel at the beginning won’t come back, no matter what devs will do.
