relax, what was, is in the past now
but
if all bosses will agro at one moment - the BEST for range AOE build
and DEAD for melee Solo-target build
if all bosses will go 1 by 1 - range AOE will pass SR room at 5-7 minutes
and melee Solo-target will pass at 1 minute
that’s why do not change anything
of two evils
it’s less
I’ m very relaxed, and the past isn’t the past. If you call people outright liars and they prove themselves otherwise you can at least have the balls to apologize. Then, maybe, the past becomes the past. So don’t be all laid back and “relaxed” on me. You can just say nothing about it.
Moving on to the aggro thing, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
What I suggested does not favor BELGO in any way. In fact lots of DW melee would suffer from this and yet i’m fine and I wouldn’t be afraid to try out a scripted aggro like that. The numbers i threw in (20-30 seconds) were just off the top of my head. This can be tested in…testing, and if it’s cool then it’s cool
Casters can be tested (and I seriously fail to see how AoE casters are at disadvantage since i’ve had the easiest time with them in SR), Melee can be tested. This problem, if it is a problem, won’t just get solved with just one suggestion that everyone agrees upon. It’s a general idea that needs to be fine tuned
IMO you should add Slatsar to every boss chunk. And bound him to nemesis, so you cant split them.
It would make SR less random, you wont press alt+f4 every time when he spawns, you will be ready for it 
It can be added but depends on where he is placed or how late he’d aggro you if he were to be scripted like that. He is by far the worst vs melee and leave him for last
Currently he is at the top of maps like sentinel since these two would make fighting all at once impossible if you run arund and aggro everything.
But if a system like the above were implemented, these troublesome support heroes could be handled by good builds
Fluff’s idea is very good. Maybe not as an every-stage thing. But as one of many different modes for boss stages. But even as an every-stage thing it would still be better than the current RNGgro abuse (new term 
)
Some builds fare better in some scenarios, that’s normal. But in current state of SR, DPS and AoE hardly matter at all. As long as you’re able to solo facetank 40% of bosses in the game you have a good shot and making it as far as your patience allows. It doesn’t matter if you facetank for 4 seconds or 4 hours.
Aggro abuse meta allows for a horrible state of SR balance. I’m glad this thread was revived. This issue should be louder than the warlord op rants.
lmao :D:D:D
Eh, might as well repost my idea since we’re discussing this again apparently. :eek:
I’d rather something like this, than having a short timer dictate when new enemies spawn - I’m not a fan of the idea of being thrust into potentially unwinnable situations if you take too long. We already have a punishment for going too slowly, after all - less loot.
Then again, fighting only two bosses at once as per my idea might be too easy, especially since you’d have the whole arena at your disposal. Hard to say without testing really. Would depend on what those two bosses were as well.
If you’re on Ultimate, just do what I did - drop down to Normal, get through the Log shards on that difficulty to unlock the 65+ waystone blueprint, then go back to Ultimate again and jump straight to 65.
Or just wait until the next (presumably) patch where the Log arena is having its size increased.
We can compile these ideas and suggest them finally. I am for these ideas
@spikenik- I’ve no idea which is better. The DpS check thign will hit a brick wall soon after 76 so lots of builds won’t be seeing 80+ with purple lucian or ekket etc.
I think we just put these ideas on the table and let crate do the math on how it’s bet to balance
Or another mode. You got a stage shaped like a Y where you start in the middle and there are 3 corridors leading spawn zones. You gotta rush to the strongest/fastest one and kill him fast before the other two - weaker ones - catch up with you. And when the do you can kite to the opposite side to solo the fastest one for a while some more.
If shard stages have different modes like the Mine Fanatics, the chests, the levers, etc. why not make different modes for boss stages as well?
I don’t really play SR so i don’t really want to state an opinion on the exact question, i just want to make a side note.
If i understand correctly, your ability to aggro bosses one by one instead of all of them the same time heavily depends on the arena (which is random) and a bit on the exact boss combo (which is also mostly random), in a game mode that already highly randomized.
And this is the most prominent “endgame” content.
I don’t want to tell Crate what to do or claim my opinion is relevant on something i have little to no actual experience in, i’m just saying that if i were to balance a game based on performance in a game mode that is innately kinda random i would do everything in my power to make said mode more consistent.
Context and factors make no difference as it wasn’t an argument against your point but how you said it. People don’t think of it as an exploit or want it to be harder as seen in _Ya’s thread. You proceeded to insult their valid concerns and in their stead I paid you in kind your own medicine. There was nothing deeper to it than that. It was a dumb response to your dumb post.
The argument that it makes SR harder is sort of moot, because you could then just advocate for letting them aggro you all at the same time but make SR difficulty scale slower if you hate the challenge and you’d thus get the result of fighting all the bosses at once while still reaching the same depth.
So try to fix something that is not broken which will break it and then try to come up with another fix. Why bother?
I wasn’t advocating for consistency of difficulty, I was advocating for consistency of how boss shards function. What I see here is players enjoying what I believe to be an exploit until it’s said to be otherwise.
Crucible exists, if they wanted the bosses to aggro you all at once, the mechanics for that also exists. And it is as much as an exploit as any other mechanic other than blindly facetanking stuff. Your beliefs don’t matter and are of little consequence.
If you weren’t meant to fight them all together, why are they all in a small arena together that often does aggro them all at once? In this case I care less what people arbitrarily feel is appropriate in difficulty (purely subjective) and more about what the intended gameplay is supposed to be.
If you were meant to fight them all together, why don’t they aggro you all at once every single time? The rest of us don’t care about how you feel it should be either.
I was under the impression that you’re supposed to have to deal with the bosses together. If Zantai were to state that it is intended that you can aggro one at a time, then I’d drop this topic.
Have you tried PM’ing him? Though, I don’t know if he responds to PMs.
You are also a tester. Why haven’t you brought this up with him during testing?
Aggroing them one at a time feels like I’ve sabotaged the intense fight I was supposed to have. It’s a gimmick to get around the challenge I was supposed to face. You might as well not have four bosses at all if you’re just going to kill them one by one.
Feel free to make a mod then. You have the tools. The rest of us need not suffer just so that you can get your intense fights.
I know I’m rubbing people the wrong way when they ignore parts of my post. I didn’t say they should all immediately aggro you from the start. I am saying that once you DO aggro them, they should all be aggro’d. I don’t like them bumrushing you the moment you spawn in. It causes issues on slower computers and in multiplayer.
I got it the first time, I still disagree as do most people.
The fact that people think this isn’t cheese confounds me. The whole point of the increasing amount of bosses is so that you have to deal with their kits being used together AKA the shards getting harder as you progress. Being able to deal with them one at a time negates a huge portion of SR’s challenge.
Divide and conquer is a valid strategy. Only a few including yourself would call it cheesing.
Arcs negate a lot of Aleksander’s challenge, kiting negates a lot of Callagadra’s and Ravager’s challenge, proper timing negates a lot of Crate of E’s challenge.
In this case I’d wager a bet that it’s a case of “what are YOU smoking” thinking that pulling one at a time is what Crate intended for SR.
Don’t gamble then, you’d lose a lot.
But like I said, if this is an intended feature of SR I guess I’ll just keep using it lol.
This feels like when people got mad that others use GDStash to cheat items. We won’t blame you for playing the game however you want.
That would just be a dps check, so hardly fair.
I am however ok with @spikenik suggestion though, so +1 for that if we are changing how SR works.
The one main thing about both of these “cheesing” / Exploits" threads that really, really bugs me is that this has been a fully moddable game for many years, and there’s never been any serious accusing about cheating or exploits untill a few certain people decide tht everyone MUST play the game they way they want and anyone that doesn’t agree is suddenly accused of cheesing the game, using exploits and basically cheating and not playing the specific way a few people demand… What the hell is the point / need to insult anyone that disagrees with the way you want the game to be played.
This has never been an issue before so why all of a sudden is there duplicate threads insulting everyone that doesn’t want this one way of playing… cheesing, using exploits… as if belittling anyone that disagrees with you will stop the disagreements and get everyone to suddenly agree with you.
Just make a mod and be done with it all. :rolleyes:
Edit…Nope at no point did the complaining testers bother to bring this up during testing.
I know, that’s why i’m not saying the number of seconds is fair. Also this is something that should happen at SR 75 only. Because players without BiS gear shouldn’t be punished.
There is a way to in the middle to please all players
Crucible is indeed a dps check already, and has the buffs for that. SR is more about consistency.
Maybe make SR chunks more dangerous ( they are pretty exciting as is but moar) more bosses sprinkled, and make boss room something more special like the Lever room where you can kinda choose your poison maybe. The poisons being available to you at that point being affected by rng of course
Would be interesting as well. The lever room and the SR only bosses like Gazer Prime were my favourite parts of the game mode.
Just try to play my melee Druid build - one hit and all bosses are focused on you. 
Slathsarr Aethergaze, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.
Don’t make a wish like this or speak his name out loud, it’s forbidden, a taboo. Now I’m trembling all over myself.
In SR he’s stronger than any nemesis except Grava. The worst nightmare for any melee build.
Now I wonder why not replace Amalgamation with Slathsarr in Crucible.
You are mistaken. I don’t mind if people want the game to be easier, but I do think it’s ridiculous that they think this isn’t an exploit. If you disagree with me about making SR harder by removing this, that’s all well and good.
I did bring this up in playtesting as cheese. Others did too. The fix did not make it. Some of these things would require programming to fix. Lack of a fix does not make it not cheese.
For example invulnerable pets had a hitbox for a while allowing you to cheese bosses by placing your pets between them and a path, making the bosses get stuck on your invulnerable pets while they try to reach you. Took a while to get this fixed.
Another exploit that is being allowed (for now) is pet snapshotting. But if the community keeps going on about it Z has literally stated he’d fix it. In fact this is not something I could fix with the mod tools as boss aggro is wonky. I mean I could make the arena smaller but that’s not the fix I’m going for.
Majority think somehow dictates what is and isn’t reality to you? I’ve used cheese and exploits plenty of times and called them what it is. Recently Z has referred to GDStash as cheating so there’s that too.
I’m not mad about this part of SR. I don’t particularly care if it stays or goes except that if I’m correct and it’s NOT what is intended, then I’d like to see it removed.
Your ability to strawman is astounding.
I can save us both breath:
You don’t think it’s an exploit. I do.
You don’t think it should be removed at all. I think it should be removed if it’s indeed not working as intended, otherwise it can stay.
Here’s your olive branch: I also wouldn’t mind any SR redesigns like some of the suggestions above. Spikenik’s is indeed interesting! If a SR rework makes SR more fun to most people, great!
edit talked to Z. It’s not intended but it doesn’t matter. There, now we’re both happy.
This is a good idea, IMO.
After a certain number of shards, the number of simultaneous bosses to fight could be raised to three @ a time (instead of two), in the same fashion as this suggestion.
Very good idea, spikenik.
Because it is not an exploit. You keep using that word, but I don’t think you know what it means. The devs never said it was unintended and you have failed to provide any evidence to the contrary. Yet you keep making that claim.
Before you bring up how they haven’t said it is intended either, let me remind you once more that they could have easily made it so if they wanted to. Yet did not.
Also, you made the claim, burden of proof and all that.
And ofcourse I have already given examples on other things that fall under the term “exploit” as you use it.
I did bring this up in playtesting as cheese. Others did too. The fix did not make it. Some of these things would require programming to fix. Lack of a fix does not make it not cheese.
Then the dev team obviously does not agree with your notion of what is or is not an exploit. So you have your answer.
For example invulnerable pets had a hitbox for a while allowing you to cheese bosses by placing your pets between them and a path, making the bosses get stuck on your invulnerable pets while they try to reach you. Took a while to get this fixed.
Another exploit that is being allowed (for now) is pet snapshotting. But if the community keeps going on about it Z has literally stated he’d fix it. In fact this is not something I could fix with the mod tools as boss aggro is wonky. I mean I could make the arena smaller but that’s not the fix I’m going for.
Entirely different things that are completely different from using a strategy instead of going Leeroy Jenkins. Not aggroing everything is not a new concept or “abuse”.
Majority think somehow dictates what is and isn’t reality to you? I’ve used cheese and exploits plenty of times and called them what it is. Recently Z has referred to GDStash as cheating so there’s that too.
In this case, where you want to talk about what is abuse and what isn’t, yes majority dictates. Using a strategy is not an exploit. Not sure how many times I will have to repeat that, but I am willing to as many times as you want me to until you figure it out.
Yes, GDStash is cheating, but so what? it doesn’t hurt anyone. Yes, people don’t bum rush every boss at once in SR, but so what? you have the option to do so.
You are literally complaining that others are having an easier time because they don’t play the way you do. If that isn’t your grief then stop complaining because how others play have no impact on your enjoyment of the game.
I’m not mad about this part of SR. I don’t particularly care if it stays or goes except that if I’m correct and it’s NOT what is intended, then I’d like to see it removed.
Many things that are not intended can be later accepted. Accidents have often led to great things. Again, you are crying over something that has literally zero impact on your personal gameplay experience.
Your ability to strawman is astounding.
Do point out where I strawmanned you.
I can save us both breath:
You don’t think it’s an exploit. I do.
You don’t think it should be removed at all. I think it should be removed if it’s indeed not working as intended, otherwise it can stay.
You missed how many people disagreed with your proposal as seen in _ya’s thread. If you are going to reply with, it doesn’t matter then don’t bother. Because at that point you are talking as if what you want is somehow more important. If majority like something that you don’t, learn to accept it or just make a fix yourself in whatever way you can.
Here’s your olive branch: I also wouldn’t mind any SR redesigns like some of the suggestions above. Spikenik’s is indeed interesting! If a SR rework makes SR more fun to most people, great!
edit talked to Z. It’s not intended but it doesn’t matter. There, now we’re both happy.
I now read the edit and feel like I wasted time writing this post. But I am still going to hit the reply button just incase because I am too lazy not to.
I do not think that luring is an exploit. It is a tactic used to defeat difficult enemies encounters that has been used since basically the first real time RPG. You can say it is a bit cheesy, sure I would agree(But one I see as fair considering how much the odds are stacked against you). Calling it an exploit is going way too far.