It gives just two affinities, has the worst nods (Assassin’s Blade has worse nods but it’s lower tier and gives 5 (!) affinity nods). And slow proc when compared to OA shred proc is pretty underwhelming.
Whenever I play a fire build, not only I am already in for a treat because I have to use (most of the times at least) Demolitionist mastery and Thermite Mines, my melee options are very limited, mobs’ favourite resist seems to be fire but that Eldritch Devotion is always a sore when trying to make a pretty devotion map, because it takes 5 points and gives only two back (and has shitty nods).
I mean I know Crate is definitely NOT adding devotion reward for anything, but maybe at least buff a devotion itself?
It’s a fire devotion. Fire is one of the best, if not the best damage types when it comes to devotion support. Even with the current solael design, you can still get meteor+fissure+solael+flame torrent easily with some spare points. It’s fine to have a downside.
Chais is another issue but devotion tweaks isn’t really what chaos needs, but item support and class support.
Ulzuin’s Torch is awesome, but I can’t remember too many god-tier fire builds except Justicar FW (and that’s because of Justicar set and Soldier mastery and FW itself). I would say that in general Cold and Aether builds are stronger, Lightning builds are way stronger, I think Pierce builds (although not many of those) are stronger. Even Vitality builds are more conistent because of adtch associated with that damage types. I think Fire is a bit better than Chaos, Acid and Bleeding, but that’s it. Maybe in old times Fire was the king that’s why they toned it down or something, but nowadays Fire is closer to the bottom in terms of power.
I am judging from my experience and from all the builds that are posted here.
There’s the 2h archon firestrike purifier, stronghold purifier, cccsennn2’s sharzul’s PS & upheaval vindicator that i’d also consider equal (in consistency and run time in crucible). Shopping’s mortar trap purifier should also be able to compare with some tweaks (does a ton of damage but has issues with surviving). Have yet to try sir spanksalot’s Ulzuin/Dagallon Purifier so can’t comment on that.
Cold and Aether are stronger because Rune and Binder, respectively. Not because of the devotion setup. The next tier of cold and aether builds have it’s own problems. PB and it’s manacost, TSS isn’t really that strong, Aether outside of binder isn’t even close. Lightning is only Ultos. Totem/hybrid builds aren’t as good. Pierce is basically carried by belgo atm. Vitality is a strong case as all three combinations of Occultist, Necro and Shaman are all good, but they have almost no room for changes in the devotion tree due to how spread out their required tier 3s are.
You see all of those “builds stronger than fire except Justicar FW” (btw you missed the countless purifier variations) also depend on one or two OP factors. That’s also applicable to fire, tbh, but my point is about devotion support. Most other damage types are vey rigid in terms of devotion if you even want to have a good build. Fire has meteor then you can go whatever you want. Meteor+DG, Meteor+Ultos, Meteor+TD, Meteor+Seekers, Meteor+Spear is probably possible, even meteor+Leviathan for hot&cold builds or warpfire conversion. And all those can be used for good builds.
2h Archon Firestrike Purifier is strong because of the heavy support of Inquisitor mastery (I also never found an Archon Maul that would remotely decent for that, not even Searing of Alacrity). Inquisitor mastery makes any element good. TBH, forgot about chinese guy weird builds, they did look good (and out of the box), but I don’t know how consistent they are.
Come on now, TSS Druid is very strong, even my TSS Breaker is pretty strong overall, not god-tier like binder or runes, but not barely making it like 12 minute shield builds. Cold PB is hella strong, yes, mana, but you can make a nuke cold pb (Fluff made it) which is very good. Aether is good even on defiler, man, what are you talking about. Look at the apostates! Not close to binders, but it’s cuz binders are in a league of their own, 6-7 minutes cleartimes is not normal for 95% of the builds.
Totem/Hybrid builds are actually close to binders and equal runes in terms of strength, look what Mercymaker did with my Totem/Savagery Conjurer, or look at Ptiro’s totem Vindicator.
Pierce, yes, I agree, not a lot of good options (just Belgo basically). But what do fire builds have, Purifier ranged auto-attackers? Well, they are all weaker than either elemental Purifiers (like the one Ptiro did) or elemental Tacticians or even elemental Deceivers. I think both good Savagery ranged and Thunderous Strike ranged Vindicator would outshine fire ranged Purifier as well.
Yeah, I agree about vitality devo map being somewhat set in stone most of the time and even painful most of the times (because you have to take Manticore), but Undying God and Rattosh are both top level t3 devotions and both are amazing. And you said it yourself, vitality has a huge variety of builds, I don’t think fire even has half of it.
Well, that I agree with. Maybe my main problem is not with Eldritch Fire but with just fire damage support (doesn’t change the fact that Eldritch Fire is inferior to Rumour and Widow), or maybe it’s just with life in general, because nothing really matters and we all die in the end. Damn it, Morty, maybe grandpa Rick is just too wasted to make forum posts, who the fk knows.
I’ve found a few archon mauls in crucible that are good, the one i’m currently using on my purifier is a searing of scorched runes, i think i have 2 or 3 searing of alacrity in my stash too. I’ve done under 7min runs on that build.
Regarding cccsennn2’s vindicators. I’ve played dozens of runs with them and both of them are very consistent and can farm 3x 170 with 3 blessings + banner. So i’ll vouch for their consistency
I would say that 60% of those builds success is Inquisitor and 20% very hard to find weapon (good Archon Maul and Shar’Zul’s Wifebeater). Not fire damage.
I’d like to point out that it’s the same as Murmur’s -%poison and -%cold. :rolleyes:
I never understood why RR in devotions varies from 23% to 35%, which is a pretty big difference. Quite often it’s a result of some older balance fine-tuning, and then partially referrencing it, even though some other things might have made the status quo shifted already.
Murmur is infinitely better. Nods are much cooler, for 1 more nod we get two more affinity points, monster’s stackable OA shred is ten times better than slow.
Chaos RR is -35% on Eldritch Fire because chaos element is a dumptser fire right now and extra RR tries to help it as much as possible (it’s still a catastrophe tho).
I don’t think Solael can be compared to Crown. Crown got more useful proc (because it covers 3 elements) and much better nodes. Two elements is in line with what Widow and Murmur offers.
Nobody likes Manticore. Thank god Pierce got that gloves mod to ring of steel.
In next episode: I make a number one sacred strike defiler with fastest Cronley kill (among sacred strike defilers), because we all know Cronley is the real end-game boss, and argue about math with people who have PhD in physics for 10 pages!
Fire seems to have a reasonable amount of Devotion RR support. Stacking RR for the most part.
Part of the overall fire umm…balance problem… is the clunky Demo RR mechanics compared to other masteries - other masteries that use easier auras and attacks. Not to mention idiot-proof item procs. (start-rant) Demo probably should also have choas RR and a few others RR types- To me it makes far more sense in lore than Inquisitor ever could. But whatever. (end-rant)
However as far as elemental is concerned: don’t forget Viper exists. It’s not -% RR, but it is a very useful RR that doesn’t need to be tied to a skill and it is of a rarer type - which means conflicts are limited to some gear and augments iirc. (and maybe Hand of ultos proc).
Viper not only adds to the elemental RR side, but also gives some decent stuff on top of that. (energy leech, %OA).
RE the OP: The T2 Solael constellation could do with some bigger OA and DA values. 10 is not a reasonable T2 value imho, and it should be in the range of 25-ish.
(Also while cold may not have a great T3, the T2 Blizzard proc is of T3 quality, imho)
