Item Rolls: Reducing the Influence of RNG

I attempted to quantify just how many prefix/suffix combinations a player can obtain throughout playing this game, and by my count (looking at rings solely, it is just as likely for other items to have different prefixes/suffixes), there are 45 prefixes and 49 suffixes, and that’s just the unique combinations, never mind the fact that each of them has varying degrees of effectiveness within said prefix/suffix. I think that suffices to say just how much obtaining the right combination is little more than a lottery requiring massive amounts of aimless killing. This is even more compounded by the fact that MI’s belonging to specific monsters (Cronley’s and Gollus’ rings come to mind) have a small chance of dropping their rings at all, much less provide anything that might be useful to the player.

I know that some people enjoy the thrill of obtaining super-rare items and are willing to drudge through hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to obtain said items. For me, and I’m sure many other people playing Grim Dawn, if I wanted a lottery, I’d save all those hours and buy a Powerball ticket. Layers and layers of RNG take away all sense of player control and puts it all on praying that this day (unlike thousands of others) and this run (unlike thousands of others) provides the one item that gives the player the freedom to run the build that had been envisioned. This is especially true when the game throws numerous challenges that declare that if one does not have the DPS required, one simply cannot get past the challenge (I’m talking Mad Queen and Fabius here).

If the developers want to increase the challenge of the game in exchange for giving the players more freedom to mix and match the items they want to wear, go all for it. In my opinion, Grim Dawn is about giving the player multiple routes of experimentation with regards to gear, stats and skills, and there should be as much flexibility for the player to reach the recommended amount of vital stats such as OA, DA, Resistances, and Damage as possible. I would much rather have the gear (I’m simply talking about Rare Items here, Legendaries are meant to be rare and they’re fine as they are) I want and prepare for a lengthy and exciting battle than farming for an eternity hopelessly searching for gear that will bring me over the DPS minimum requirements.

The way I see it, this can be approached in two ways:

  1. Leave the Rare drop rates as they are, but provide a way for the player to take that ring to a Smith/Inventor and allow the player to make the Prefix/Suffix combination suitable for that character.
  2. Weigh the items according to the region obtained so that farming a specific area provides a deccent chance of providing the desired prefix/suffix; for example, fighting many Flesh/Rage Hulks gives you a good chance of finding gear with the “Flesh Hulk” suffix.
  3. Increases the drop rate of rare items so that the game becomes finding the right combination of bonuses, not wondering whether the item is even going to drop in the first place.

I’m sure a reasonable conversation can be had on the merits of each of these suggestions, and before anyone uses this as an opportunity to personally skewer the devs, I want to personally thank them for making this such a great game and continuing to keep their eyes and ears focused on genuinely hearing the concerns of the playerbase. That does not take away from the fact, though, that I personally despise multiple layers of RNG and wouldn’t want to force any player to go through such a slog.

I think these 2 ideas may have some merit. For the former I could see a page being taken out of PoE and having a smith/inventor recipe where you mash a number of items together with a chance to spawn an item with a subset of affixes. Or perhaps you pay a high fee to reroll all affixes/prefix/suffix. Either way you could feel like you’re making progress if it’s a matter of collecting enough Hearts, Bloods, etc for rerolls.

I like the weighing areas/mobs/bosses idea. In another thread someone mentioned how Borderlands has gear that can drop anywhere but a much higher rate with certain bosses. We have a similar concept already with MIs, but expanding it to affixes may alleviate things. The only caution there would be the Treasure Trove effect where players would know which places to farm have the highest reward and almost exclusively farm there, despite it not being especially enjoyable.

There are good points. To me, even if RNG uses pseudo-random distribution it would be enough (that checks stash and past drops). If an item is not dropped, it’s drop chance increases and vice-versa or as long as no legendary drop after level 50, legendary drop chance would increase etc. This would be implemented through a simple algorithm. Just give weight to every item and update accordingly. This would not help much “suffix/prefix” situation though. Your first idea can be good solution for that.

An Enchanter/Smith/Whatever to change affixes would be a good idea, if the challenge is also implemented right. And it’s not just about MIs, the greens from blueprints also comes with affixes, and can also be good with the right combination. The problem is that at least with the MIs you are only losing time trying to farm the right one, with the crafted ones you are losing time and resources.

One way that I can see an service like that been implemented is like this:

  • Affixes come in blueprints that drop practically everywhere and are saved for all characters, just like regular blueprints. Magic affixes are, of course, more common while Rare affixes are… well, rare. :smiley:
  • The Black Legion, the Order of the Death’s Vigil, the Kymon’s Chosen and the Outcast are the only places to find the NPCs that offer this service, but they will become available when you reach Honored with that faction.
  • The NPCs also offers unique affixes from them that cannot be rolled from drops, but only at Revered reputation.
  • Items changed with that feature will be dark red instead of green (can be other color), and you cannot change the affixes on that item again.
  • Magic affixes only cost Iron Bits to be implemented, while Rare can cost components on top of the Iron.
  • The level of the affix will be influenced by the level of the player, and so do will be the price in Iron Bits.