Journal of Hopeless, the non-equipment character

Made some changes to my build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZeOJpE2

Should be a relatively uneventful journey to Smugglers pass, I don’t intend to complete the undead dungeons now that I have all my devotions. Also, the frost and storm revenants are highly resistant to my totem, making it a slow and inefficient way to gain exp.

Got through arkovian undercity relatively unscathed.

Lutra took about the same amount of time as she did on elite.

I’m learning more about how the monster AI works. They will have an order they will attack and not change their current opponent until it dies or gets away. So if an enemy attacks my briar thorn, it will completely ignore me until it’s dead. If my primal spirit is marked as its second target, it moves to that until it is dead or gets away. If it attacks me, all I have to do is get out of range. If my pet attacks it, that pet becomes its priority and I’m safe again.

Another thing is tether distance. Like most games, an enemy can only go so far and then has to return to its spawn point. If you find that cap, you can go just beyond it and follow them as they return to their spawn point, attacking them safely without any response.

Made it to smuggler’s pass. Pretty sure this will be easy as trolls are slow.

Talked to ulgrim, things are going smoothly.

Made it to homestead, nothing dangerous along the way.

…Okay, this is cool!

Oh thanks, I didn’t think anyone was reading. It’s just my own quest to climb Everest in GD. I appreciate it.

No problem!

Seriously, this no weapons/no armor build is insane.

I might try it sometime myself…

EDIT: I figured this out about the tether distance as well. I was fighting someone in a cave during act 5 and I sicced my pets on her and used Blood and Storm Totems and ran away whenever she got too close. (She’d return to near where she spawned after I ran away) Died like twice to her but killed her eventually.

That’s great, most games have it. It’s a good way to win when you are much weaker.

I’d be curious how a shaman/occult would go. The poison resist would help, and raven also boosts elemental, stuns and heals. If I had to do it over, I’d go with that combo, but any combo I’m sure offers different options. The only two fights that really matter are the ultimate log and theo fights. You can get through the rest of the game with any combo.

I completed a no-class character before this and beat theodin on ultimate. I think this is harder for many reasons. With equipment, but no classes, there are plenty of skills you get from equipment that are just as good as class skills, so you aren’t at much of a disadvantage. You have so many ways to go with every set offering new options.

With no equipment, being hit can be your end, resists are a big concern, yet manageable, you miss out on all sorts of bonuses to damage and skills from armor and there are not many options for tying a devotion proc to a skill.

It’s still fun and a challenge. I am still figuring out the optimal skill/devotion build and will have to try many times to find the one that can beat loghorrean and theo.

Someone on youtube beat the game in under an hour on normal mode. I don’t think I could do that.

Tried different devotion builds but many left me with negative resists or too low health. I can’t give up ishtak, it gives so much health, resists plus a safety net when hit. I’ve settled on a more defensive build for now, which includes tree in place of tempest and a couple other changes. I still have much more work finding the ideal, but this is making it easier to stay alive for now. 12705 health now with everything going.

I’ve narrowed down which resists I need to focus on for the Ultimate Loghorrean fight, everything except cold/bleed/aether. I’ll work on a devotion build for that as I near level 100. If I can kill him, I’m satisfied, theo may be a bit beyond my reach until I figure him out.

in the meantime, I will level up and push to him as soon as I can.

Killed Amalgamation. He took some time, but wasn’t much of a threat. One trick is to get close so he swings, then retreat. Another is to stay back to easily dodge his aether spray which seems either to be in bunches or go in a fork. Sometimes he summons, but my totem kills them quickly.

Headed south to do the high exp quests in pine barrens. They should be good for two or three levels.

I have -4% pierce resistance, I was worried about the briarthorns, but I seem to be ok. Maybe it is a low priority resist. Or maybe it’s because I dodge them and don’t get hit.

Seems like I ought to get exp for restoring a shrine even when I already have 55, but alas no.

Dranghoul enforcers/tyrants are the bane of my existance. They chase me down, do a ton of damage, attack fast and have plenty of health. One I can handle, but 2 are terrifying. 3…and i run like the wind.

I did ol’briary, gloom, and the manticore. I’ll return later to do the tyrant hold quest.

The path to darkvale, rescuing farmers and freeing the lumbermill, were all pretty smooth. About to enter the boss of darkvale gate, but I think as long as I dodge him, I should be ok.

Took some time with the second stage. He casts 3 scarlet orbs. You have to keep moving or you’ll get fried by them. A good fight!

Made it to fort ikon. Will take a break for the night.

Sadly, 4 new deaths for the night. But, I can sense my nearness to Loghorrean.

Oh yeah, we’re reading alright. :smiley:

Re leash length, just be aware that if you run into Kuba in the Ugdenbog his leash is extremely long as I found out the very first time I ever met him. It can be done, but you’re going to have to run a very long way to manage it.

Oh cool, glad others are reading.

Just for fun, I tried vitality/regen build, but it failed. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/DV9QedjV

Against heroes and hard hitting opponents I couldn’t heal faster than the damage they did to me. Regular opponents it was as if I were immune.

Maybe it didn’t work out, because I still haven’t hit lvl 100 to max everything out.

There’s a thread about useless skills and people keep listing storm totem. Yet, my build is centered around it. Maybe I’m missing something stronger? I don’t know what, that’s why I tried the build above, but it failed.

Maybe I should switch to the vitality version of storm totem and use devouring swarm to lower their vitality. I’d no longer need wind devil and could use those points elsewhere EDIT: although I’d keep 1 point in wind devil and 1 point in raging tempest for their effects.

Or possibly I could try one of the runes of inquisitor, but they require considerable more points to max out while storm only has one skill.

I like the vitality idea, vitality is often associated with massive heal and life regen.

I have seen many builds in the compendium that uses Storm Totem, so I don’t think it is useless by any means.

I gave the vitality build a try, but it did not work out. Resists and health were too low and even with four 30 second consumables which boost vitality and the debuff from rattosh and devouring swarm, i just could not clear things as fast as my lightning build. I missed the slow effect of grasping vines as well.

Behemoth is not a substitue for tree and I missed the movement speed which is essential for dodging.

I was pretty excited about it too, I thought I’d kill them quickly while healing up with devouring swarm, but theory and actually playing are two different experiences.

Here’s the vitality: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/RZR4XJO2
Here’s the lightning: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/q2m9E3o2

I cleared ikon armory pretty quick, now ready to face its commander for the third and final time.

He got me once with his aetherial devastation, dead center. I hope he enjoys it, that was his last chance.

Now to make it across my least favorite place, the minefields, and then I’ll knock at Log’s door.

Made it to the gates, now to clear the rift and then the wagons.

Clearing the rift. It’s a good idea to separate them out by retreating to find where only one doesn’t return to the rift, and take them one at a time. It takes a while this way, but it’s very safe. (see how I separated them from the rest, one at a time, in pictures 153 and 154, then got the last at the rift in 155). The next wave was pretty easy with 2 heroes and didn’t need to do all that again.

Wagons were easy, lead the guardians away and blow them up.

It’s been a long journey, but I’m at his door and he knows it. I’m going to level up to 100 and do further planning, maybe revisit the vitality build since I won’t have aetherials to worry about. I’ll test the build on them and see if it does better. It’ll probably end up being a hybrid of both if I try it, but I might stick with this build since it’s so effective. It’s good to have options though if one way doesn’t work.

I’ll need to decide early if it’s the way to go so I can level up those devotions while I level to 100. No point getting to lvl 100 and then having lvl 1 devotions.

Also need to do the elite/ultimate hidden paths. I should be able to do both.

I know I can do Log, I have confidence. There are still many tools I haven’t used, like the consumable that lowers resists, the one that summons a pet, aetherial clusters, and others. He just has that last 10% of health that is so hard to defeat, he must have a very high regen when he gets that low.

Probably might try theo on normal and elite too.

I tried a hybrid vitality, just replacing spear/staff/tsunami with vitality devotions like wendigo, gallows and bat, but it was still a disaster. Then I realized the reason it isn’t as good is obvious. It only has storm totem whereas my lightning build has totem + wind devil. I thought about doing vitality with wind devil, but without lightning devotions it wouldn’t be very effective.

I tried devouring swarm, but I felt like I had too many buttons to deal with. I need to focus on dodging and not mashing more buttons. I have 5 active buttons, 3 of which I cast at once (seal/totem/wind), so really only 3 things I need to choose when to use. Add to that consumables, and it’s more than I want to deal with while watching where to go. I’ll also be adding aether clusters too.

There seems to be more to the tether distance than I thought. There is the spawn point and the tether distance at which it will turn and retreat. There is a third point, and that’s the point in between the first two points where it will turn to fight you if you follow. If you draw two concentric circles, you have the inner circle where he will fight you and the safe zone between the smaller circle and larger circle. I have to learn to stop attacking once it is within its hostile zone.

I went down into Seal of Loghorrean to see if I can reach him without any troubles. I don’t want to prepare for Log only to find out that his guardians will stop me, which did happen with my non-class character.

Bane’Galgalor seemed to pause a lot and do nothing. maybe it was pondering how my existence there was possible. He thought about me, therefore I was. He forgot to think about his own existence, therefore he isn’t anymore.

Bloodlord Thal is harder, if I stop at all, he casts an orb at my feet. It is a DoT and will kill me if I stop, which I did and then it did. I remember this problem with the non-class character, he killed my pet as soon as I summoned him and I couldn’t tank him. I had to get all resists to 80+ to defeat him. I don’t have that option with this character, so I’ll need to wait until my skills are stronger and come back, specifically word of renewal. I’ll probably use aether clusters next time when I mess up and an orb gets me. Maybe I just need more practice at dodging his orbs.

But, that’s ok, it’s like a series of steps I have to overcome to get to Log.

I’ll try the elite hidden path now.

It’s nice to see my resists higher again in elite and my spells cut through my enemies faster.

I killed the first poison boss. I always felt he’s the hardest of the 3 hidden guardian bosses, especially with all the eyes around casting poison.

I tried cursed tincture for the first time and I can see how it’d be amazing for a face tank, since you’re right next to your opponent, but it’s not good for me since I’ll rarely get close to Log to cast it. It’s also a very short radius, which won’t help much when there are lots of monsters beyond its range. I will look at other options for that toolbar slot. I’ll finish the tinctures I bought and maybe I’ll get better at using them.

Got the second HP boss. Just have to avoid its purple orb and sometimes it breathes. Other than that, it’s harmless.

The third was the easiest, now for the sentinel.

Made it to his door without incident. Just have to remember to draw him away from his healing green crystals.

That didn’t go too well, I kept getting stuck between his pets, him and his crystals. I’ll add that to my list of things to do and go back to Ultimate to do the quests I skipped. I think once I max out word of renewal, that will help a lot and I can try him again.

Back to ultimate and in Ravna’s hive.

A real cheesy thing you can do is get enemies by a door, fight them as long as you can, go through the door, heal then come back and repeat. Seemed to work in the hive queen’s lair when I got swarmed.

If only all bosses were like ravna…slow, telegraphed meteor swarm, with lots of room to maneuver and retreat. Very easy fight.

Now bolvia.

Bolvia was a real challenge, with his fragments, minions, and who knows what else. Took some time and lots of close calls, but I didn’t die.

Brother Elluvius was grateful and was willing to overlook my past recusancy.

Here’s an idea, Elluvius blesses me before I begin my quest. maybe save this and get his blessing before I take on Log. I’ll try that, although I doubt the buff will last very long.

Lvl 83, will take a break.

Did quests in epic AoM for experience. All of the Coven and Barrow questlines to their end.

Made a couple changes to get dryad for poison. It’s really good with reducing it until it’s non threatening. Its proc is going all the time. It ought to have the same impact on bleeding, but doesn’t seem to help as much, i took DoT from bleeding in epic and died. Maybe it was something other than bleeding? It was from a wendigo and assumed it was blood.

Finally after 3 or 4 attempts broke through the enforcers of tyrant’s hold. The gate closed and they couldn’t get to me, my totem tore them to shreds while they ran around helplessly.

Fought bloodfeast. He was easy, in contrast to the difficulties getting to him. Don’t give up.

Did some leveling up, made lvl 87. I’m getting close to finishing word of renewal. I’ll try to see if it helps me kill the epic sentinel and/or bloodlord thalonis on ultimate.

It would seem that what I was hit by from the wendigo yesterday was a vitality orb and not bleed. That explains why dryad didn’t protect me. I tried standing in a bleed effect, the kind that splashes up from the floor, and didn’t get affected at all.

I tested dryad’s effectiveness with Bane from tomb of the watchers and i could see it fighting his poison, but it was a losing battle. Maybe I can get another devotion, like aeon’s hourglass, to fight the poison even more. That would also help with my casting so I can get more storm totems and seals going. It also might help with the vitality effects of Log.

For lesser enemies, dryad seems to cover their poison very well. I went back to epic and I stood in 5 poison effects from 2 carnivorous plants and 3 poisonous blooms and didn’t need to heal, I regenerated faster than their damage. When one turned into a bloodthirsty hero and cast a bleed DoT on the ground at my feet, I didn’t suffer either. My health bar didn’t even drop. EDIT: My consumable also contributes, reducing duration a further 20%, for a total of 76%.

This is what I like about challenges, I learn things that help me with regular characters. Also, if I feel something is becoming a crutch, I will do a challenge without using that thing. Like in dark souls, I found I relied on shield, spells and archery to win, so I did challenges without them and won. Same with overleveling to win, I did a soul level 1 challenge and won. I found I died too often, so did no death runs.

There are youtubers who do challenges beyond me, like finishing this game in an hour or completing all 3 dark souls games without even getting hit. I’m sure they’d complete this game on hard core with no equipment if they ever wanted to.

I cleared darkvale gate several times on ultimate for experience. It got too easy, so I switched to leveling up at tomb of the watchers.

I should try to do the elite sentinel and ultimate bloodlord bosses soon. I think at level 90 I’ll be ready. 3 levels to go.

I was curious about how far I could go on crucible. I got to level 110 on aspirant, maybe next time I’ll go for 150.

Bloodlord Thal is proving to be a tough nut to crack. I get him to about half health before I slip and make a fatal error. The two problems are that his minions make it hard for me to spot him and his orbs, and if I stop to cast my spells, he casts orb at my feet. If I don’t immediately move, they will get me.

I tried a build that gave 80 in chaos and vitality, which helped a lot with the orbs, but the devotions lacked speed so I could not dodge quickly enough.

Hit and run seems safe, but it takes a very long time and one error means death from the orbs. I don’t think I want to spend an hour to get him down to near death, only to slip and have to do it all over again.

I’ll try a pet build, maybe they won’t die to the orbs and I’ll be able to cast totem safely from a distance.

Going up levels will help, if I max arcane empowerment, my totems will do a lot more damage, hopefully killing him before I would slip up with my dodges.

I am sure there is a solution to him. I would likely have a build just for him, switch to it when I get to him, then switch to a build designed for Log after.

In the meantime, I started the ultimate hidden path. Dryad proved to be an MVP, rendering the guardian’s and his eye’s poison harmless. The poison had no effect on me, even completely immersed in it with just 27% poison resist.

The next guardian in broken hills was not too hard, but the third is proving a challenge, seeming to teleport right onto me. I’ll come back to it later. Maybe a pet build would help to keep it occupied.

Monsters still left to kill: Sentinel elite/ultimate, 3rd hidden path guardian ultimate, bloodlord thalus ultimate and of course ultimate loghorrean.

Great run and great read. Thank you for writing such a log, and good luck!

Thanks, glad people are reading.

Elite sentinel went down, but it wasn’t much of a victory. He stayed at lvl 83 while I had gone up to 90. I do not have that advantage with my ultimate targets. They will keep scaling up, but maybe when I get to level 100, their levels will be closer to mine.

Finally defeated Bloodlord. I used a hybrid between pet and my lightning build. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/gZwg3RqZ

The primal spirit did nice damage while wind devil’s elemental debuff kept lightning totem relevant despite having no lightning devotions. Importantly, the pets were able to survive to do damage with more devotions to help them.

This build has great vit/chaos resist (60% for both), which helped a lot, without sacrificing movement speed or health (nearly 15000), both critical.

My experience with the other build was that he’d instantly kill my pets and concentrate on me. If I stopped for a moment to cast storm totem/seal/wind devil, he’d be on me with his orbs, plus his minions would swarm me and block my escape or just prevent me from moving while he cast an orb under my feet. With virtually no vit/chaos resist, i died quickly to the orbs.

This build solved those problems. The pets kept him and his minions occupied for a few seconds, giving me safety to cast my spells and move again. They would swarm the pets instead of me, giving me room to dodge and escape. If an orb got me, I had more resists to survive it and get away. It was a much easier fight. The hardest thing was probably getting a good photo of him, since my briarthorn kept moving where my cursor was so I couldn’t display Bloodlord for the camera.

I dropped in to Loghorrean to let him know all his defenses had failed and I’m getting ready for him. He’s next.

Got a little tired of leveling up against the same chthonics and decided to take on the Kymon quest. I have to go through the dreaded mine fields just to get there, but I will do what I must.

You can make it fun by leading enemies around and killing them with the mines, but it’s easy to overlook a mine and killed yourself instead.

So sad to only get 21 more points of health when I level up and add a point to physique. Maybe I should finish the inquisitor mastery. With a regular character, it’s not so important to max out both masteries because equipment can make up the health, but I have to play be different rules with this guy.

I need more dps with my totem and wind devils, but there is a rumor going around that dps is not the best when you die.

Entered the forsaken wastes, even my regular characters rarely come here, but all my skills are geared towards chthonics and should help.

Have entered the obsidian throne. The very atmosphere weighs down upon my shoulders.

I did not check what damage types Bane does. I hope it isn’t elemental, I’m weak at those.

Serves me right, he’s fire. Luckily, he’s very slow, his fire waves and explosions are easily avoided and he telegraphs everything well in advance.

Took him out, now back to kymon.

Have to get the eye of korvaak. I only did this quest once before, it should be fun.

So glad they are mostly chthonics, I do more damage to them than any other enemy type.

Now facing ghouls, to their dismay, thanks to dryad their bleeding is useless against me.

Meeting bosses I completely forgot, like Harvoul the earthshaker. I guess when your parents name you earthshaker, your career paths are limited.

Sharanatu is not much different than Bloodlor Thal, he just summons different minions. The fight went smoothly without a death or even a close call.

Kymon was overjoyed to get the eye. The next step I can not reveal to you, only those with enough thetans are worthy enough to find out.

I will try the Devil’s crossing honor quest. I’m curious how much dryad protects me from the acid in the sewers.

It holds me up pretty well. I cross the streams and don’t suffer at all, even standing a couple seconds doesn’t kill me. The slith and spiders are pretty nasty here though. Most likely due to my terrible pierce resist.

I really should get the first 2 points of aeon to increase my poison reduction, plus it helps many others. Maybe it’s the key to surviving Log with its poison and vitality reduction. Fire and chaos will be an issue, but if I no longer have to worry about vitality and poison, I could shift devotions from vit/poison to fire/chaos. I’ll have to test this idea.

Forgot there’s no room to maneouver here in the slith boss room. The vents that shoot up, reminiscent of Charon, prevent any dodging. This will have to be added to my ‘to do’ list for later, but it isn’t important, I have all the relic blueprints already. It was worth the trip to see just how effective dryad was. Those acid rivers normally quickly kill an equipped character.

I think i’ll test dryad’s bleed resistance against the bonehunter. It’s pierce too, so I may get hurt from it anyway.

He went down in about 5 minutes. A lot of running around the rock formation. I only got hit a couple times by his spikes, I dodged or kept the rocks between us the rest of the time. I got damaged, but didn’t notice and DoT effect. I think it was just the pierce portion hurting me.

Running through the east swamp, I think it’d be cool if you could bargain with more factions, kind of like kyman vs the order of death. Maybe you could pick between trolls and grobles. They’d need to be a separate sub-race so they don’t interfere with the overall factions, maybe a swamp race of each.

You could meet with the swamp king of the trolls. I’m sure something threatens his swamp and he’d be grateful if you took care of it, like the undead from the east and the plotline with the order of death. If you’re with the order of death, the trolls would not want to ally with you, but otherwise you could pick a side. Maybe there is a territory war with the grobles, both believe the swamp is rightfully their homeland. They’re both intelligent enough to recognize a strong hero who would benefit them more as an ally than as an enemy.

A perk could be that you hire troll mercenaries or work with a troll throughout the questline and he joins you when you complete it, like a pet that scales with player bonuses. It could be summoned from a troll armor set, like the blood knight set’s pet. Or maybe it’s a relic you can only get by completing the questline and it gives a troll shaman as a pet, like a superior version of the mistborn talisman.

Siding with the grobles could be interesting too.

I will continue leveling to 100 tomorrow. Getting close.

I tried a few different builds to see if there is a better direction.

I tried bleed, trying to make use of my primal bond’s and primal spirit’s bleeding, trading out lightning totem for devouring swarm and maxing grasping vines, and dropping spear of the heavens for bleed devotions like huntress, bat, assassin’s blade and stag. It didn’t work out. I did very little damage, they swarmed me and I barely escaped with my life.

I tried adding two points to aeon’s hourglass, to get 101% poison reduction and other benefits, but it didn’t help much. I had thought if I became immune to one of the attack damage types, I could put more points to resists for the other attack types, but the point cost of getting aeon gave me no flexibility. I had to drop tsunami and my damage suffered. I can’t afford to do less damage if I am to be able to overcome his last 10% health when he suddenly has super fast regeneration (or something…maybe his attack damage converted to health goes up).

Most of those poison attacks are coupled with another type of damage, like poison and vitality. Plus, the reduction is for poison only and not acid. If Loghorrean were a giant poison bloom, I’d be golden, but he does much more than just poison.

It also didn’t help much with Bane or the poison/acid rivers in the devil’s crossing honor quest. I’m sure my poison reduction negated the poison effects, but not the acid.

The best alternative I’ve come up with so far is a fire/lightning/elemental build. It uses light of empyrion instead of spear of the heavens. Defensively, it is much better. My resists are up and I seem to be able to take more hits, probably because of its proc. However, the downside is it kills slower. This is probably because Rune of Kalastor has a shorter radius and shoots indiscriminately, whereas lightning totem seems to target specific enemies in a wider radius. If nothing is near Kalastor, it will be shooting at nothing, whereas totem would keep attacking targets. The knock down effect is good, but not enough to be a game changer.

I keep coming back to my lightning build. It is very good, because everything supports one another. Spear of the heavens punishes those that hit me, it’s like having another pet.

Tomorrow, I’m going to test out a lightning/cold build with wind devil + rune of hagarrad.
Fire/lightning/elemental build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/62awnj3Z

Lightning build: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/lNkqbAdV

Tried cold build https://www.grimtools.com/calc/w26wXjbV

Have mixed feelings.

Comparing the three, these are how I’d rank
Best resists: fire
Middle: lightning
Worst: cold

Best health/reduced damage: Fire
Middle: Lightning
Worst: Cold

Best damage and dealing with minions: Cold
Middle: lightning
Worst: Fire

I think cold is the way to go, the way it freezes groups of minions. I’d have to practice more. I’m a little concerned the cold rune will obscure the orbs from Log. On the other hand, fire is the best defensively. If i can get its damage up, then I would go with that. Lightning seems to be the most balanced of the three.

I will need to find ways to improve its health and resists. I could sacrifice some of its offensive devotions. I need to level up its devotions, or the devotions of the one I pick if I don’t go with cold. I that will give me time to better understand how it works.

…That’s a lot of current effects you’ve got there, man.

This is great, more people should try this!

Thanks, nice of you to say.

I gave the 3 builds some thought and decided the freezing of rune of hagarrad would work with my lightning build and it turned out to be a great addition. It makes the lightning build put out much more damage without sacrificing its defenses. What I especially like is now Tsunami’s cold boost will have something to improve.
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/YZeOQnQ2

The one achilles heel is that fire resistance is very bad, -10% even with the consumable to help. I’ll have to look at which devotions can be changed for more fire resistance. Likely dropping stag and the branch of tree that gives 4% health in order to get ulo. Health and movement speed will drop, but poison/chaos/elemental resists go up. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/Q2zogqAV

The way I look at resistances is as long as they keep me from being instant killed, they are good enough. I can recover many ways.

Just 2 more levels until 100 and then I’ll start testing my builds on Loghorrean.