I wouldn’t hold your breath. Crate isn’t a fan of the mechanic. I think GD, the first, is a strong indication of that.
Reality disagrees with your disagreement. Magic Find forces the player to choose between using fun or powerful gear, and having a reasonable chance to find loot in a loot driven game. Why even find the gear then? I can’t wait to get decked out in magic find gear so I can farm more magic find gear so I can increase my magic find!
Same thing in Grim Dawn, find gear to find more gear, to find more gear.
Like these “pathetic” Crucible “farmers”. Like if you have gear to clear 170 glad cruci in sub 10 minutes, why do you need to find more loot? Well, to make more builds that can… yes… farm the crucible for … more gear… 
You should know that Magic Find has diminished returns, more MF does not mean “more efficiency”.
Reality… lol
You can just see magic find as another variable to get efficient unique yield. Like if I sacrifice 10% run speed in trade for more unique yield.
So, there is usually a tight range of what MF% is suitable for your char in order to maximize efficiency.
The problem with Diablo II is not mf, the problem is that it is extremely ill balanced (the rarest items are pretty crap) and there is almost no end-game except for farming more items to finish the “holy grail”, or pvp on bot-net. So again, the problem is not mf, the problem is lack of end-game content (check out some of the really nice mods for D2 for that, like Path of Diablo)
If extremely rare unique and set items where more “useful”, and the end-game was more developed, stacking mf and grinding gear in lower level areas would make more sense.
Mf would make more sense in Grim Dawn actually, since here we have more end-game stuff to do besides “farming for the sake of farming”.
I see it no different from say, farming Krieg’s set so you can use it to farm other sets.
You said so yourself, “loot driven game”. So you will have stepping stones, so to speak, interms of items before you can get that full set of legendaries or whatever to deck your character in. What difference does it make if they had MF?
Besides, you don’t have to choose between fun/powerful and MF gear. You use MF to get better gear and once you do, why would you face the dilemma of choosing one or the other?
And, if you are worried that if MF existed, then they would have to nerf drop rates to compensate for it, then that can be changed by making MF an extremely rare attribute not available in large quantities, instead of nerfing the drop rates.
You make a good point about mf challenging player to find balance between
optimal mf number and clear speed. this does means players need to calculate
much more numbers and experiment a lot to find the right mf numbers. some
players like it, some players don’t. i’ve mixed up feelings with mf.
agreed with stamina. its a badly implemented stat. it could’ve been used as a
passive bonus to speed or some extra physical damage, but i guess diablo 2
doesn’t have the capability for such mechanics at the time.
still, having stamina for just running is better than having no ability to run at all (diablo1 is good but come on… no running?)
So, about magic find… Hey, where did Grimomar go?
I think the no running is what makes Diablo 1 so scary, the slow pace 
His thread derailing into a discussion about mf sent him running back to D3/WOW. 
10chars
yes, and that’s why diablo1 almost feels like a different genre compared to diablo2 and its kin. you have to use suspension of disbelief towards player inability to run to enjoy diablo1.
to op, i think the community in this forum is nice and helpful, though they can be
sarcastic and a bit too vocal in their opinion. still, they mean well in the end.
this community is far from toxic imo.
Hi Friends,
Many thanks for the replies. I was on a business trip and logged in from the airport and was pumped to see a 3 page discussion on magic find.
Many thanks to the first replier for posting the discord channel. Will join that when i play next.
A few questions:
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it seems like GD is mainly a single player game, what is the end game mechanic? what makes you guys want to keep playing?
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what do most folks do? spend time on a main character or retool and play with multiple? how easy is rerolling? on average how many chars do you play with?
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i just bought the ashes of m expansion pack, (just because the community seems cool) i’m still only level 15 - how many hours does story mode take? i’m Ocd and like to explore every corner of the map
yes it is a single player game.
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Crucible dlc, and in the next expansion the shattered realm is what most ppl will do for endgame. Otherwise you have many cool and though bosses and nemeses to hunt and kill in the main campaign. What keeps me playing is both to make all my chars better in the aspect I inteded for them, making new ones and making budget builds is always fun.
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No idea, I have multiple chars. Some of them are specialized some of them are themed some of them are made for crucible some of them are budget-builds for my guides.
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like 50-60 hours the first time you play it and on all difficulties.
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Well, you have 3 difficulties to fully powerup your character and then the crucible to conquer (if you have bought it). It will also take some time for you to get all the items you need. Then there are the secret quests, Shattered realms in the upcoming expansion etc
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I have about 15 characters that are all different kinds of pet conjurers…
Total number of characters at 30 atm, will increase when FG releases. Once you understand the mechanics of the game and get used to it, starting a new character is comparatively easier since you know what to do, were to go etc. Also, exp potions, faction mandates and passing down old gear from previous characters and the shared stash makes leveling easier and faster.
3)I haven’t counted the hours, but if you want 100% completion then, it should take you a good while.
On the discussion of Diablo 1,
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for me, end game is being more completionist on each character I roll – maxing factions and grinding out for the gear (although that takes place on multiple characters and then I transfer gear I might find that fits another character). I also like to Nemesis hunt, run the rogue-like dungeons and dabble in Crucible every so often just 'cause.
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see #1 above. I have about 10 max-level chars, another 10-15 in the 85-97ish range and another 20ish in the sub-70 range. I frequent the Builds forum and like to try out builds that seem interesting, or that lead me to tinker with something that might fit my play style a little more.
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I’m the same here. I’m OCD about hidden areas on maps, completing all quests and maxing all factions. However, I suggest you only worry about it once you hit Ultimate difficulty. If you go too completionist early on, you’ll run into issues with level scaling in Elite difficulty and everything will be green/blue until you hit Malmouth.
My usual path when playing is to just run through Malmouth in Normal as quick as possible, just to unlock the factions (don’t actually complete, start Elite once I get Resistance faction). Then I rush-complete Malmouth in Elite. When I play Ultimate, that’s when I explore the entire map, do every side quest and grind out the faction reps. I think the entire story for me now is about 10-15ish hours per difficulty, with Ultimate taking more as I go into OCD mode? I take a lot of breaks and play during down times at work (work from home), so I end up replaying a good deal of content early on. I end Normal(vet) around mid 60s, Elite around mid 80s and Ultimate in the mid 90s…
That’s all single player time (before your head explodes, yes, there is a ton of afk time mixed in that :rolleyes:).
End game mechanic? Whatever you want it to be.
What makes me keep playing is because I like making and running new fresh characters, trying new things, getting rid of the old. Simple as that.
Thanks all! Sounds like there is plenty to do.
Malawi - What is a “budget build”
Powbam - 11604 hours - That is fantastic
A budget build is a build that is based around low tier gear such as faction items, craftables and epics. As opposed to the high tier level gear builds with full mythical legendary sets and double rare greens etc…
Builds that can be made by almost anyone and not assuming one has done a lot of farming before, and they should be able to do at least some of the end-game content pretty easy.
A budget build is basically one with relatively easy to get items, like say, the faction gear you can buy straight from vendors. Most of the builds you see in the forums are endgame builds with full sets of legendaries and stuff and think of budget builds as something that helps you farm for said legendaries, ie, stepping stones.
A bit late but here’s my reply to the Three (questions)
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Endgame. Tweaking builds for that extra few seconds off crucible times mostly. For me. I don’t know what the ACA (Anti-Crucible Association) folks do. Joking.
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GD is number one aRPG when it comes to build diversity. Plus there is no paragon nonsense so once you’re done you’re done and you move on to leveling your next char of the class you don’t yet have. Sometimes you go back to your old chars to tweak something according to what you heard around the community, sometimes you respect your chars completely into new builds.
I just counted: I got 12 legit chars (including 3 single class legit chars already leveled and waiting for oathkeeper) and a few cheated ones.
- You can rush the main game and make it to The Other You quest on ultimate (the last thing you need to do to fully level a char) in 10 hours or less. If you take your time to search all locations, do all the quests, open all chests, read all the dialogues and notes then, I don’t know, maybe 10 times as much?
So in order to get end-game according to the ones that are addicted to the proc and spam fest (where you cant see what is going on, similar to greater rifts in d3) you need to buy another dlc called the crucible 
nice business model huh?