Legendary Torso and Helm feedback

#1

Many of these items have 0 builds on the forum. Guys, please do comment on the thread with your thoughts for these items, or start experimenting with them! Feedback does help, as you will see in 1.1.4 :wink:

edit This list is now complete

Torso Armor

Heart of Yugol (Pretty sure needs work)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12446
TLDR: Fine but nobody takes it for nightblade or shaman so far, so maybe different +skills for those classes would be better. Swapping one the non drain essence +skills for either +2/4 aspect of the guardian or possession would make the already very good cabalist build with it a bit better. If someone rather pick +skills to open it up for a different class combo we’d need suggestions.

Shroud of Illusion (Garbage, battlemage can only work well with sets)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9247
TLDR; How is it after 1.1.4 skill changes and new conversion? I still feel it needs both types of dodge.

Dodge is not a very reliable mechanic because while it mitigates damage, it doesn’t reduce the dmg that actually hits you. Also, even if you made the projectile dodge 100%, people would still die wearing this to melee attacks and attacks that can’t be dodged.

Vestments of the Great Guardian (Flimsy survival, outclassed)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9248
TLDR: It got chaos to acid conversion in 1.1.4, was it enough? If not, please add flat poison damage to the aura. It has a 0% chance of breaking anything because the best acid pet builds will always use Ghol set instead. Adding physical resist to the armor (even if you have to get rid of some OA) would help too.

I wouldn’t mind seeing that 7% less damage from chthonic enemies moved to the aura as well. Great OA, but only 24% chaos resist while acid characters tend to be squishy. It’s also caster armor so it has terrible weakness to physical damage.

Stormweave Armor (Worse than set torsos without their bonuses!)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8373
TLDR: It got added 3% Physical Resist, increased Offensive Ability to 90 and Defensive Ability to 60, but it could definitely use non TSS skill bonuses. Firestrike or something from firestrike’s line instead of TSS would be good. Chillsurge being replace with something would also be nice.

Korovan’s Chestguard (Outclassed, displaced, undertuned)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9250
TLDR: Piercing PB builds take SR set over this. Even if you consider this a placeholder until then, it could be more generous for a non set chest item. You could bump the weapon dmg on the proc, bump the numbers on the resists a bit, bump the DA and increase the numbers on those +skills. Maybe add a 4th +skill. That ought to make this enticing to experiment with pierce PB tactician.

Fiendscale Jacket (underrated tank item with tiny issues)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9245
TLDR; it got * Mythical Fiendscale Jacket: increased Health to 950, increased damage on the skill proc and added Defensive Ability Reduction to it in 1.1.4, which is nice since the proc hits everything.

The +skills can really really really be higher here. +2->3 at least. I like that it has two occultist skills, maybe double down and give it two shaman skills instead of one?

Venomancer’s Raiment (Outclassed by Venomblade and Dark One’s)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8370
TLDR; It got the OA it needed and elemental converted to acid. Is that enough?

Otherwise this item might need a little rework.
Maybe focus on trying to make a ranged pierce to acid auto attack build?
Or maybe replace aspect of the guardian with possession?

Divinesteel Hauberk (newb trap tank item? Zantai hear me out!)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9252
I’ve changed my position on this. I think the +skills could use tweaking still and I’d love to see suggestions on this, and aside from that 30 DA would be lovely. It’s not as bad as I thought as other things seeing buffed helped cover the holes in this item.

As for the +skills, Ulzuin’s Wrath, Fighting Spirit, Conversion, Divine Mandate? I just don’t see it panning out. Guys, do you have any idea what +skills might actually make this thing see use? They’d have to be defensive skills.

Gildor’s Guard (underrated tank item with tiny issues)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8375
TLDR;Please replace the bonus to fighting form with Menhir’s Bulwark. MB could use the support and nobody has ever taken this item with fighting form.

If you have the energy to spare and think about the rest of the item: Blade barrier sucks so replacing it with Pneumatic Burst or at least increasing it to +4 would be nice I guess.

Word of Renewal can be +3, people only really seeing solid use of this item on retaliation warlord.

Dread Armor of Azragor (Great item)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9249
TLDR; Fantastic item for retaliation builds, unsure for the rest. No suggestions from me yet.

Does anyone else have feedback on the +skills? Are any of them useless and could be swapped for another skill that’d be interesting?

Vestments of Severed Faith (Great item)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12445
TLDR; Please change the +4 Conversion to +4 DEE so it can pair better with tome of atonement.

Frostdread Cuirass (Great item)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9263
TLDR:Probably better to swap Reprisal with Aegis of Menhir since cold aegis is under supported and thus it’ll be difficult to max Aegis’ main node attempting that build.

Don’t think We’ve seen cold aegis of menhir on the forum yet, but this item is trying. Not really important for multiplayer but it is an aura so listing it here, and it does enable other builds already.

Helms

Voice of Dreeg (Not a single forum build and only 2 forum posts even mention it)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8130
TLDR: This item is just competing with so many better (set) items for these skills. Flat acid dmg wasted since it’s a caster helm. Honestly Z maybe rework for something crazy even if it doesn’t work. Like Acid Cadence, Acid blade-arc, Acid Savagery, etc. Maybe Acid righteous fervor. Too tired to think deeply about it but this item has no identity that isn’t better elsewhere.

Okaloth’s Visage (Cool new item, RF side is good, reset could use some tinkering)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12328
TLDR;Go retal to attack on fire strike please. Not those lame mods.

RTA sigil hasn’t seen use on it either. Maybe it’s too new and the community is just smaller now. Maybe the gear support just isn’t there. I wouldn’t be afraid to just put +1 demolitionist on this thing and nix the RTA sigil all together. Otherwise you could try bumping the %RTA on sigil up and entice people.

One must note that righteous fervor lets you hit many times a second while sigil relies on its tic rate. You might argue that sigil also has AoE but against priority targets you need big dmg numbers.

Wyrmbone Mask (It’s not as far off as people think)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8129
TLDR; Please add chaos resist… and phys resist. Also +1 Inquisitor or soldier would go a long way.
The following link shows that the item isn’t too far off for tactician’s sake.

Interestingly, despite the electrocute it’s still used in spam forcewave. If the above buffs seem too much, the electrocute given to horn of gandarr can be higher. I’m not sure about the stun jacks thing panning out.

Soulare’s Helm (weird class combos, weakest EoR build)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11735
TLDR; All I know for sure is that this helm craves pierce/chaos/acid resist. Picking any of these would help. It also needs attack speed without a doubt for Eye of Reckoning.

Maybe SOULblade should support aether eye of reckoning… cuz dark souls, soulare helm…

Right now people are using it as a templar lol: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BzDdJ2
Don’t know if anyone else has feedback for this.

Mask of Infernal Truth (Craves OA)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9145
TLDR; Even retaliation builds need OA, can swap it for the flat dmg which retal builds don’t need. The +2 Grenado can be +2 shattering blast would be better. And it would happily give up that 8% dodge for another resist.

Dawnshard Gaze (Just give it a small buff to see if people experiment with it?)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11733
TLDR; If it was good the russians would probably have built something with it already.

Aegis of Menhir can afford more RTA from this item because without sets Aegis is not going to get spammy. Rune of Kalastor can get more than +1 projectile. Otherwise I can’t make heads or tails of this item so I’ll bite my tongue.

Whisperer of Secrets (needs feedback after a certain competing bleed set gets nerfed but this item probably sucks)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9142
TLDR; it got increased Health to 480 and Offensive Ability to 96 in 1.1.4, I wonder if the +skills should be reworked to fit in with bloodborer pistol.

Maw of Despair (add necro skill mod, siphon souls or fire/aether RE?)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9140
TLDR; I just have a hunch that a necro skill mod to go with a certain set would fit into the next patch well.

If you could turn back the agrivix nerf a bit that’d be great. Either way the variants using this helm could use a bump up. Also if you could make the battlemage side of this set, aka the soldier side, better that would be amazing because battlemages need all the help they can get still.

Horns of Korvaak (Sad)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12325
Good on a Purifier build, untested with savagery, occultist.

Crown of the Revenant King (needs community feedback)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/11734
TLDR; Vit smite, needs feedback. Anyone?

Venomancer’s guile (check after 1.1.4 changes)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/8127
TLDR; maybe with bloody pox acid set change and amarastan crusher this will see use.

Eldritch Gaze (needs community feedback)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9161
I’ve seen builds use this weirdly but NEVER for chaos blade arc. I think Chaos Blade Arc utterly flopped and the effort it’d take to make it good is not worth it. Vitality blade arc might have a better chance though!
Needs feedback after previous changes

Covenant of the Three (Doom bolt is still meh to main, needs community feedback)
https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/9162
TLDR; bis for a certain doom bolt build, but doom bolt as your main ability is still lacking. I don’t know if doom bolt ultimate ranks need more love or just its itemization.
Needs more feedback.
Follow this build: [1.1.3.1] [HC] Vitality Doom Bolt Sentinel [vids]

Other Balance Threads I’m managing and updating with each update:
One-hander feedback
Two-hander feedback
Shields and Caster Off-Hand feedback
Jewelry Slot feedback
Leg and foot armor feedback
Non-set shoulders and gloves feedback
Relic feedback

Shields and Caster Offhands Feedback Thread
Grim Dawn Legendary Jewelry + Belts Feedback
Feedback on legendary Boots and Leg Armor
Community build making challenge thread!
#2

Fiendmasters is good provided you are not using a set with a chest piece. That is kind of its only real downside imo. I do use it on my Pet Deceiver Scheherazade - Pet Deceiver

As for Necrolord’s, personally I only really use it in Lost Souls builds or if I need to desperately get Familiars to 26/16 and there is no other option. I wouldn’t be against buffing it.

#3

Do not touch the health of Fateweaver Rainment. If anything, it could be increased.

Maybe drop the % spirit fo DA since this item seems to be more defensive.

#4

As for Dread Armor of Azragor

I always tried to intruduced this chest into Vit-based shaman (mainly melee/fighter, since it lacks everything caster wise) but it’s overall lacking in either elemental resists and useful skill points.

-The best part IMO, is it’s flat vitality numbers.
-I only see consecration and Spectral Binding as good choices, the rest isn’t that awesome.
-It’s very low OA isn’t even usefull, I’d at least change it to 4%, if it won’t get any new updates.

Since it’s a chest armor, it litterally blocks BK.
I’d probably try and introduce Aegis of Menhir points?
Or a transmutter “100% physical damage converted to Vitality to Aegis of Menhir” maybe?
It already has a acid/poison transmutter, could create a new option.

Thoughts?

#5

@Maya Great, thank you. I have removed fiendmaster as I suspected.

@Norzan well my main suggestion was just to add a 4th skill(which I strongly feel it needs) and improve stats. But you care about ALL the +skills on it? I’m iffy about the flashbang but am fond of the other 2.

@Zeren chest pieces don’t get skill modifiers, but I like your thinking. Swapping wendigo totem for Aegis of Menhir would be good and Vitality Aegis of Menhir would have to be supported elsewhere.

I agree menhir’s will could be replaced, but I don’t know by what. Soldier isn’t a bad choice but vitality soldier isn’t a huge thing. Breaking Blood Knight is going to be rough so I dunno what to give it for soldier. I wouldn’t mind it doubling down on necro though and have spectral binding as well as reaping strike, harbinger of souls or something, but it would be nice to see vitality soldier work somehow.

It could replace menhir’s will with Second Rite to help out this old build https://www.grimtools.com/calc/xZydnrnV

It could bump something offensive in Inquisitor for this build, since it’s a slow build:
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/M2gG17y2

I wonder if wendigo totem just swapped for something else in shaman would work too, since Shaman does have vitality stuff. But I’ve never seen a shammy build using this. Devouring Swarm would ofc be used in any vit shammy build.

#6

I like the flashbang and specially the elemental balance bonuses. I’m kind of iffy on the Stormcaller Pact myself, don’t know a caster lightning shaman build that uses this chest just to get bonuses to that buff. But all three are fine overall, but i don’t know which 4th skill you can add to it since this chest supports four damage types.

Aura of Censure maybe? I know it’s a meme to cry that Censure is broken, but it would make this chest more appealing.

#7

It’s a bummer that it’s a friendly aura, or else I’d have suggested to add vitality RR. That would of been good to support VIT based builds that include Soldier.

So I guess that chests are limited, as in they cannot give skill modifiers/RR?

#8

@Norzan I guess I can see why you like the flashbang. For off-meta builds… flashbang is always a good thing to have.

I didn’t know whether people were using it with stormcaller builds. So yeah I have been won over by you and am perfectly fine to see the Stormcaller build. I searched the forum and zippo builds used it with stormcaller, heck zippo builds use it. And that’s okay but I feel like this item could be build enabling in a way that doesn’t push any other item out. Censure’s not too broken anymore so it’d be a welcome addition.

@Zeren just because I want to be perfectly accurate with you: The chest COULD get skill modifiers, but not a single chest in the game does. I personally think it’d be neat if Zantai broke precedent sometimes, but I also understand why he values consistency in game design.

So the answer is that whether or not I like your suggestion for a skill mod there, it’s not going to happen so we gotta think of other solutions :slight_smile:. I hope I was clear, I’m tired atm.

1 Like
#9

Hey no problem! I appreciate your time and effort to explain/precise what I am unaware of :slight_smile:

#11

Fateweaver is great ! Just look all the resitances, the aura provides.

The problem of Severed Faith and others is, that they interfere with sets, so it’s hard to pick them.

Yugol ? It’s probably good, but for vitality phantasmal blades you want Demonslayer set, which already have chest piece.

#12

Great is unfortunately relative. :stuck_out_tongue:

Fateweaver was great but it’s fallen out of style since, unless someone shows me a modernized build that picks it and wouldn’t rather do something else.
I agree with you, but now it feels more like a placeholder. That’s why all I’m asking for is a 4th skill, replace stormcaller, and replace the %spirit with %DA (or spare the %spirit and give it a little DA anyway).

Because they interefere with sets, they need to be strong enough to make people consider breaking them, along with the shoulders and whatnot.

'Severed Faith is fine, I just wanted to make a comment that the arcanist on it sees no use. I rather the +4 Conversion be AAR or Disintegration. And Maybe I’ll try to make fire AAR with it.

Yeah, no way PB Yugol will compete with demonslayer. So scratching my head on that one.

#13

Concerning Dread Armor of Azragor, I might have found an idea…
It would also require some slight buff to another existing item, but since I have not seen anyone use it, that would be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Support Blade Arc with +2 to +3 (can be exchange with the menhir’s will skill points).

ADD to https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/7706 Howl of the wendigo “-XX% vitality RR to Blade Arc”
and maybe also add “6% to 10% of retaliation damage to Blade Arc”, depending on if it’s balanced or not (the retaliation part).

Thoughts?

#14

That would work but I don’t think it’d work in the way Zantai would like. Also the value would have to be smaller because you can double up on the weapon, though I suppose shield is important to get enough retaliation.

Well either way the problem is: Yes that would work, but it wouldn’t actually be vitality blade arc. You’d take Azragor ane howl of the wendigo and then just fill the rest of your items with retaliation gear. With retaliation to attack you barely need skill point investment in the skill. It’s all about the retaliation.

So basically I think it’d constrict Howl of the Wendigo in a way Z doesn’t tend to do. It would certainly make that weapon and another 1 hand variant good lol. You wouldn’t even need the RR on blade arc. I dunno.

#15

Then let’s drop the idea about the retaliation.

But About the vitality RR and support to Dread armor, do you believe it would be a decent idea?
Quite frankly that would give this armor at least 2 uses :

-Retaliation (from it’s base stats, for retal builds)
-Support to Vitality Blade Arc (with the already existing items).

#16

I am very skeptical:

  1. Vitality dmg melee builds have already known to be on the weaker side of melee, squishy.
  2. Look at how hard spellscourge and Targo set are trying to make 1 hander blade arc work, it’s hard to make the skill good for 1 handed player.

I don’t even know if there’s enough item support in other slots for it.
Basically these two factors compiled together, I’m not sure it would even function as a build. Blade Arc might not be the way to go. I’d argue vitality cadence or even forcewave would have a better chance. Lack of itemization in other slots though, always a problem for converted to skill mods lol.

edit tho at the end of the day if Z wants it to work it will work.

#17

Has it? It feels like most Arcanist builds without a set piece on that slot (e.g. PRM) would be happy to pick it. The physical resistance alone…

As for other bonuses, I’d avoid Censure (which already has plenty of support) and look towards less fortunate masteries. Maybe something for Occultist?

#18

@Pareto I had written a bunch of stuff based on my PRM builds, because I was aware a couple used it. But only one that had came to mind when I made this thread was aether PRM which is the weakest.

But you’re right! Invoker set PRM builds are happy to use it! I will edit the OP, thanks for making think of this. When I make these threads I do it publicly on purpose. I’m just one guy trying to consolidate my experiences and testing with the feedback of all my friends and other community members I probe regularly etc.

Not only can I mis-remember or miss something, sometimes the whole community isn’t aware something’s good because nobody has publicy tried yet. Example: Item that was good but nobody experimented enough to find its strengths gets buffed. Buff gets the item attention. Someone finally figures out how to use it in a build with some optimization and it is overtuned. Item buff gets reverted :D.

^this is okay, the purpose of this thread is just to bring attention to the gear I don’t see much of or have found to be bad myself, or could just use sideways improvements… and anything that goes wrong can be corrected pretty quickly.

Updating OP

#19

Fateweaver is pretty great chest piece. I do agree that skill bonuses on it feel very random except Elemental Balance.
Not sure what kind of builds use this chest and utilize Flashbang (Sorcerers usually have this slot occupied by Infernal Knight/Ulzuin/Justicar/Pyran), Elementalists would rather use Justicar gloves + chest or Ulzuin chest + amulet combination. Stormcaller’s pact bonus is completely useless too.
I guess adding Inquisitor’s skill bonuses would make this item too OP, so I would recommend making it an Arcanist special, so maybe just some bonuses to other Arcanist passives (given upcoming Arcanist buffs).
Also, Spirit buff is actually good, I would recommend increasing it a bit to make it more meaningful or making it 60-80 flat Spirit.

#20

Arcane will. For reasons I can’t disclose I’d like some Arcane will on this thing please please please. Arcane will and a little DA and this thing will be great for one niche build. If we can have a fourth skill I dunno.

#21

My opinion: some DA will make this item too much. It’s already super strong, just a bit niche.