Life steal and Total damage


Say you have a certain amount of %attack damage converted to health. Now you activate an aura with “Total damage modified by -50%”.
The logical expectation is “ok I halved my damage, so now I only leech half as much health as before” right? Wrong, for some reason you leech only a quarter.

Skills like Maiven’s Sphere of Protection, Wrath of Agrivix, Tenacity of the Boar or Clean Sweep affect both your damage and %life steal. As a result, the amount of health you steal has a square in it
Health = actual damage x actual %life leech
Health = source damage x (1+%mod) x %life leech x (1+%mod)
Health = source damage x %life leech x (1+%mod)^2

which is both unintuitive and unconsistent with debuffs not scaling above 100% weapon damage.

I suggest keeping %life steal unaffected by %Total damage modifcations. This stat is supposed to affect damage, not special effects (life steal, debuffs, slowness, resistance reduction…). What do you think?

Thread inspired by this one.

In principle, i think, it would be great if % attack dmg converted to health would not be affected by % dmg modifications twice. (One time - the second time actually - by your final dmg output, and yet another time before by the % dmg modifications of skills, buffs, debuffs etc.)

I have no idea, whether these interactions can be unraveled though, since it seems to be a consistent mechanic wich doesn’t affect % attack dmg converted to health alone, but all effects that “proc” from your weapon. :confused::eek:


They can definitely be unraveled. In the past, about 1 year ago I believe, debuffs used to scale with %weapon damage. We had crazy unbalanced cocktails, for example Execution + resistance reduction. They fixed it by capping debuffs at 100% weapon damage.

I would be really interested to read additional opinions about this.

I would be in favor as I get the need to prevent > 100% Weapon damage scaling but the reverse should be true at least for %life steal. +1

I think total damage should be completely unrelated to these effects.

Weapon damage % is already doing that so another layer just makes it needlessly convoluted. The double penalties just make those skills less attractive and limit your options.

there isn’t much else to say

there hasn’t been a single proponent of the current mechanic. people complained a lot when it was first implemented, and zantai just said it was working as intended and didn’t seem to want to entertain the discussion any further

it’s an objectively awful and senseless mechanic, and i don’t think anyone will disagree with that

I think he’s fine with the discussion as long as it isn’t in the bug report section.

Which is strange because it sure looks like a bug.

I mean if resist reduction followed that formula would anyone really think that clean sweep w/ a double dreeg + focus set up was supposed to be reducing resists by over 100?

Well, but, it isn’t though. Its confirmed working as intended. So now we just call into question that intention, hence the feedback.

My opinion remains unchanged. I see 100%-absolutely-positively-tooty-fruity no reason for this thing to be a thing.

I want to understand what the problem is here, but I don’t. I’m still pretty new to the game, so I don’t understand much of the mechanics behind it. Could you explain it more simply than in the first post? :stuck_out_tongue:

This peaked my interest because I just started a new character and found a weapon with life steal. I want to try making a build around it. (but that’s beside the point)

‘% to all damage’ modifies ‘attack damage converted to health’ values. Like if you have 10% lifesteal and -50% to all damage, your effective lifesteal will be 5%.

I think all debuff effects still scale with wpn%, just that it’s hardcapped at 100% for most if not all things. But I am pretty sure that anything below 100%wpn damage still only gets the appropriate downscaled effects.

Oh ok. Now I understand, thanks! :slight_smile: Does that mean any ‘+% to all damage’ will increase life steal?

No, only those found in skill transmuter will increase/decrease it and then also only for that specific skill.
So whenever ingame the test says ‘+% to all damage’, that will NOT affect LS, while anything that says ‘total damage modified by X%’ will affect it.

I also think the issue is not a very big deal.
The only skill that actually would profit from not having LS reduced by transmuter modifiers would be thunderous strike anyway, all the other ones can’t really make good use of LS anyway due to bad wpn% scaling.

Hm, I forgot that frenetic throw actually is back to being a negative transmuter with a hefty -75% mod. For that skill it definetly IS kind of an issue, since the skill seems to be built upon LS.

Nine got his terminology wrong. No, ‘% All Damage’ does not affect lifesteal.

‘Total Damage Modified by %’, however, does.

Heh, that’s what I get for glancing at grimcalc for the term lol.

I may have had to look at the B30 patchnotes to make sure I got it right. >_>