Make an endless grind: Future of the ARPG

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

I have been playing ARPG’s since the beginning. Kill-level-loot better gear-raise dps-kill tougher monsters-repeat.

Grim dawn may be my favorite ARPG. I love grinding to find that legendary ive been looking for, or the blueprint, whatever. Its all about the grind. There has to be a grind. Why else would anyone in their right mind slay monsters on the same levels over and over…hundreds, even thousands of hours? Because we havent reached the maximum godliness of our toon! We havent equipped the greatest of gear. We are grinding towards that.

I feel like the grind isnt strong enough in grim dawn… its not strong enough in any ARPG ever made. I know that im on the very extreme side of “the grind”. But its what these games are about! The grind keeps you coming back for more!

My idea on an endless grind could possibly be implemented in the relic crafting. The relic could be something to endlessly grind on. You craft your mythical relic, then say you need 4 mythical relics to lvl it up in a very small increment
(the grind). Maybe at lvl 5 it will require 5 mythical relics, at lvl 10 6 mythical relics, etc.

This would be a great way to keep a grind going on ANY character, even if they are max lvl. I feel like your character in an ARPG should NEVER reach his maximum strength. There are small drop chances for items in these kind of games because they are about the grind. The grind needs to continue in some way, in any way in this game or Grim Dawn 2.

My idea of the perfect ARPG is having an ancient monster(The boss of all bosses in all the land near or far) and most players will never come close to defeating him. He lives in a deep tunnel under the earth and most do not even know of his existence(he slaughters all that enter).

This lord of all lordly lords(Bowelsnake The Putrid Tusked Demon Pig) does not hinder the endgame in any way. He is faaar beyond the endgame. He is simply there to remind the player that although he is very powerful and completed all endgame content, He still amounts to nothing!

Your character has the potential to kill Bowelsnake, but that dream is yeeeears off. You must grind. GRIND! Bowelsnake will not bother your little world up there. He will dwell and wait as he has done since the beginning. You ARE the Hero! Youve defeated the Red eyed Doom Drake. What else do you have to prove?

Well you may be a Hero, but you’re no god. And you probably never will be…But Bowelsnake has nothing but time.

I think an ARPG needs this kind of monster. Its about progressing your character. You need to always be progressing. Working towards something bigger. Bowelsnake is there to promise you that you will have lots of work to do for years.

This idea of defeating Bowelsnake in my head turns into a meme. Like “HALF-LIFE 3 ANNOUNCEMENT TRAILER” but it’s “BOWELSNAKE HAS BEEN DEFEATED!” and everyone knows its a lie, because NOBODY defeats Bowelsnake. Not until you grind for a few years.

Im sorry for this story of complete randomness, but at the end of the day, having something to grind for in these games is what they were made for. It does not have to interfere with the rest of the game and can be for the hardcore players that live for the grind!

Acidflayer The Putrid

2

Well, it’s what some of them were made for.

Grim Dawn was made with the idea of “finishing” a character being a realistic goal.

4 Likes
3

I disagree and disliked i.e Paragon levels or Gem Augments in Diablo 3. Boring infinitesimal numerical grind.
Doesn’t add anything to the game only creates problem for build making and following.
Makes balancing the game more problematic and bots have more impact.

2 Likes
4

More than 5K hours of GD and I never got to that point. I thinks me is not being made for grinding… but nicely written petition.

5

Yes, grind IS a big part of such games. It puzzles me when people start complaining about GD being “too grindy”, while in all actuality it’s the most generous ARPG I’ve played in terms of loot. It’s like complainig about needing ammo to shoot in a shooter game. I mean, c’mon.

That said, even in GD character progression doesn’t stop unless you decide otherwise. There’s a certain limit to power of course, but with so many variables on gear the proccess of “upgrading” might as well be endless. And don’t forget about MI’s!

Now, concerning “unkillable superbosses” I think some (or all - I don’t really know) MMO’s got you covered. I’ve heard some stories from such games about a boss that is pretty much impossible to kill, and like hundreds or maybe thousands of people gathering together and fighting it for days or whatever.

That sounds pretty cool, but I’m glad this is not in GD.

1 Like
6

I understand the concern there. Being worried about where everyone else is compared to you. I was thinking that once the relic is lvled beyond the regular mythical state, it becomes character bound. And just gives something. The grind must live on. In any way possible.

7

Let’s just have seasons in Grim Dawn 2 that have enough content / stuff to grind for for no-lifers for their whole duration.

2 Likes
8

A grind within the season is great. The Path of Exile league is always a grind. But unfortunately we can’t all no life it in a 3 month period. Thats why the grind must live on in the “standard” game.

Also would be great if it wasnt saved locally to get rid of all the dupers. A solo self found hardcore mode would be epic.

These games are about killing and getting unheavenly epicly lordly strong with item upgrades. To improve the grind, we need items that are 3 times more rare than the mirror of kilandra and Bowelsnake. That should keep the hordes busy. Grind they will.

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Given the infatuation some people have with testing actual finished builds and that testing driving updates, i don’t think adding extremely rare items is a good idea. Some people already take issue with fantasy greens, even after the devs made them easier to get, forget extremely rare items that will give a boost in power regardless if they are bigger or smaller than a fantasy green.

Of course i’m talking about Grim Dawn and any future games in its series.

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How would having extremely rare items hinder build testing? These extremely rare items dont have to make or break a build. It adds variety. Having a chance of items dropping in the game that only a few players ever find is just interesting. Having the chance of dropping that ultra rare item is a sweet grind in itself. The item doesnt have to be a game-breaker. Its a very simple way of adding variety and mystery to a game. How could anyone have an issue with that?

Sure they may not ever complete their rare item collection but it puts something in there that they have not discovered. Something they have not witnessed with their own eyes. And if the ultra rare item drops its a SHHHHHWING moment.

I know everyone is different but… shwing moment. If there is a single ARPG player out there that doesnt love a “SHWING” moment, please raise your hand.

Im 100% sure that crickets will follow

11

Ok if there would be an issue with that, then why not extremely rare cosmetics. They drop like any other item, and taken to the illusionist to be added to the cosmetic pool. Its not grinding for power, but for something. The grind is a huge deal. As you know.

12

I would love if there was more leveling after 100. Not for stats, just to see that XP bar move and level go up so I wouldn’t feel like all that monster killing is wasted. I like leveling so much that most of my lv100 characters are abandoned as soon as their gear is “good enough”. For that reason, I’m yet to finish ultimate despite playing GD for~500 hours… I’ll probably have to start on ultimate with level 1, otherwise I will never beat it.

Other reason for not beating ultimate is the fact that there is nothing to do and see after it. I’m not a fan of SR or Crucible - I vastly prefer running around in campaign. If I beat ultimate, it’s going to feel like I “finished” GD and I don’t want that. I wish there was more difficulties after Ultimate, even if there would be no new content and just 10-20% harder enemies.

13

Well, devs have made it clear they want characters to be finished and not continually gaining levels.

As for finishing the game, then try a few of the mods for the game.

1 Like
14

It’s understandable some people dont like to grind for insane amounts of time on one toon. It’s fun to try new builds I get it.

I also realize some people like to get to their peak in the short amount of time it takes to get to 100. I just think the dev’s should put some sort of infinite grind in the next game.

Thaeril… I know exactly what you mean by wanting to see exp. Numbers roll haha! You too are a victim of the grind! Cause you gotta be killin’ to gain. Killin’ to kill isn’t as fun in ARPG’s as CS:GO, or any FPS game. Max lvl needs investment. I wish it was even beyond diablo 2 investment. Finished characters really are boring!

You’re telling me that our hero can become a legend and reach max level in a few lazy days?
And then spend many hours only gaining power in the items he/she finds and no power to gain while taking thousands more souls on the battlefield?

Well that’s just a waste of grind mojo. Your hero is the same ol’ guy after finishing ultimate as he is when he slays all the nemesis GODS? Why? The grind mojo is such a huge deal. It’s so weird to me how some dont care about it.

Dear Crate entertainment,

I highly recommend implementing ultra grindy tasks for ultra grindy players.(majority of us) I recommend this because Grim Dawn 2 could be the greatest action role playing game in all the lands.

Please give us the opportunity to find ultra rare items that most of us(including myself) will never actually loot. Give us amazing grim dawn mysteries that most of us(including myself) will never uncover.

Let the grind live on in some way, in any way.

Thanks,

Acidflayer the Putrid

15

Literal monts or years of grind to reach level 99 in D2 is antithesis of fun. I’ve played this game for, like, years, and the highest level I’ve reached is 96. I’ve seen some crazy guys grinding Baal runs 18 hours/day for 2-3 months. And if you die once, you lose days or maybe weeks of progress.

That’s over the top tedium if you ask me.

1 Like
16

You’re right there sir. And over the top it should be. I played softcore d2 when I first started. A friend of mine showed me how great hardcore was… it is the only way for me now.

I havent played softcore grim dawn. There is no need to for me. Having a high lvl character die is just bittersweet. It sucks for a few mins and then you realize it’s just so the grind can begin again.

17

no. no endless grind. at least for grim dawn.

for me grinding in grim dawn is just a gameplay mechanic to make you characters strong enough to beat the challenges offered by the gameworld, while designing the characters to your preference so that you can beat the game’s challenges in various stylish ways.

when the game can’t offer more challenges for your characters, and your characters has overcome all their time trials challenges within their optimal capabilities, its time to wait for a sequel or spinoff. or play another games. because you have reaped almost all the enjoyment you can get from this game’s world. the only way to freshen the experience is to get away from it and return after you start longing for it again (and i’m sure gamers these days have dozens or hundreds of games they have completed and not)

for me, immersing myself with the characters in the game world with their stories and lore is the main reason i play video games. grinding is just a tool that you eventually have to acknowledge their diminishing returns of enjoyment when the game world is close to its climax. changing the game world drastically to appease the feature of endless grinding will destroy the sense of immersion and balance of power between your characters and the game’s challenges. unless its a multiplayer game with reduced focus on the story and more emphasize on multiplayer-competition-season-meta-ranking-whatever.

every good and bad things have their own ends. if we dedicate too much time on playing a single game… we are really missing the great experiences (and perhaps life lessons) offered by many other games out there.

grim dawn’s world have reached its 1st climax (banishment of korvaak, yugol’s accelerated descent upon cairn, the cairn factions’ unofficial ceasefire between them to rebuild their forces and have more babies to join their cults (yes, really, one of the dreeg cultist in the camp tells a story about rescuing a pure baby. and port valbury’s lord aldritch had a pure baby too iirc)). its time to wait for crate to make gd2. grim dawn is complete at this point.

edit: like medierra said, try grim dawn mods if you still want more content for it.

18

You do realize the sentence is self-contradictory. Not liking something =/= not existing. The content exist, but you choose not to play it.

Which statistics proves your claim of what the majority wants?

Again, self-contradictory. Why implement something that would never be uncovered. :rofl:

19

Mr sleeping-sun…

You may be the type of player that expects to know everything that will drop in this dungeon or that. And that’s ok. I like to have a challenge of possibly not getting what I want. And that’s ok. It’s ok that I want this and you don’t. But no it is not self-contradictory. Not even close. The fact that the chance is there but highly unlikely appeals to me.

Say you’re gambling, and you know the chances of hitting the jackpot are very slim, but you also know there is a teeeeny weeeny chance you could win… it’s exactly the same thing. For me.

Different strokes for different folks

20

Tastes differ, true. But the statement is still contradictory, regardless of preference. Why implement something no one is going to use? It’s a waste of time, energy, money and purpose. If it’s in the game, it is meant to be found and used.

1 Like