mastery idea: barehand class

As we now have several elemental classes and even two aether classes now, seems like we’re coming up short on some good old physical and trauma. “I’d like to see another mainly physical class” I’ve been thinking. With weapon proc skills. What weapon would be unique though, I thought?

Enter the fist. Create a passive bonus for having empty hands that rivals the stats on hand equip, and several (lack-of-)weapon proc skills.

Tried unequipping a weapon on my cadence guy, was really satisfying to punch things for a bit, and blitz with punch (edit: oh, that doesn’t work, my mistake).

That’s what I’d like to see in a potential expac 2, anyway.

It’ll need a whole new class of weapons, maybe called “fist weapons”. Off the top of my head are brass knuckles, punch daggers/katars and spiked thingies strapped to your arm.

Unfortunately, unless the mastery had OP skills it would never survive to the end of Normal, let alone Ultimate. :smiley:

there was actually a build created not very long time ago that did take the challenge of using unarmed combat. he made it until elite and since then it was not updated, so I guess it really is not doable! :rolleyes:

I also kinda want an unarmed melee mastery but I’d rather have a something else. Maybe a class that can harness eldritch powers and perhaps another mastery dedicated to inventing robots, gadgets etc … shapeshifting is out of question due to technical engine limitations

Would probably struggle with the expansion content on Normal is my guess. People are complaining it’s too hard and that’s with weapons!

Hey, sometimes when putting on weapons I saw that equipping some weapon might actually lower my DPS. Dunno why that is; perhaps it’s attack-speed-related, perhaps it’s because of piercing-conversion on the weapon, but in any way I have seen it!
So in some fringe-cases barehanded combat might actually be more effective than using that weapon.

If you want to play an old school ARPG with fist combat try Sacred 1…

It’s outdated in graphics but might be able to find a sale on Steam or GoG

Well, DPS is time-related. DPS=Damage-Per-Second.

Very often the discrepancies do boil down to Attack Speed (and don’t forget each weapon has their own base innate attack speed, which is a factor as well) and the damage range (whether wide[10-250] or tight[200-250]) of the weapon in question. Damage conversion also affects the output as well as what skills occupy your LMB/RMB and the relationship the weapons you are using have with those skills and then there are all the other bonuses weapons may (or may not) have that have varying degrees of influence.

In the end there are several factors that can come in to play in regards to sheet DPS.

Indeed. I remember seeing that with the “Fire Strike” skill and I guess it really was something about the weapon converting physical to piercing damage that would otherwise have been converted to fire damage, paired with a lower base attack speed.
It’s still irritating though to see your DPS go up when actually not using any weapon at all…
Dunno if there are cases where even your actual on-hit damage goes up when using no weapon, or if it’s only DPS where you may see this.

My thought is that a passive “nothing in hands” bonus would be something like, one or two or three bonuses more than a regular passive bonus. More or less a mastery level 1 skill the strength of an exclusive skill, in exchange for giving up two pieces of gear, while not even being an exclusive skill, just a passive bonus.

It could be something like:
(requires hand equip slots empty)
flat physical
%total speed
%dodge projectile
%hp regen

And be a 16 point skill. And then when you get an exclusive skill from your own class or another, the amount of bonuses on the toon just get big additively. For example, adding oleron rage would become a lot of OA, adding possession and witchfire would become a lot of damage and attack speed, etc.

It seems so good that it’d restrict build options, but it also only functions if our boxer (call it a pugilist?) mastery is used as the primary mastery; in secondary roles their other passives/weapon independent abilities would have to be used, since it’s gone once you equip anything.

It might be kinda strong early, but I deliberately left out %physical dmg to mitigate that (since you’ll end up with that through pumping cunning / devotions / equip bonuses over the course of leveling). I don’t think it’d be much stronger against level 20 warden krieg than a cadence build.
Also I’d go 3 Physique, 5 Cunning, 2 spirit, for the mastery stats.

They get shut out of most active skills by not having anything in hands too; no blitz, no forcewave, no AAR. Before you cry over or under powered, just think about how passives could balance out the handicap. Because of the handicap, I think it could be achieved without becoming OP, is my point, anyway.

If GD gonna have barehand fight. I’d want devs rework Venomlance into a spear or long-melee weapon. TBH, the joke is awkward.

Well, actually I would be against having a barehanded class.
Not that I wouldn’t take it if Crate decided to add it, just that other options would be more fun.

I feel that barehanded fighting in computer roleplaying games has been pretty much overused and is more or less a cliché that mostly doesn’t fit in the respective world it is put in.
While they offered a pretty distinct style of play, monks didn’t even fit in D&D. When they were (re-) introduced in D&D 3.0 people suddenly were like “Uh, ok, I got this medieval fantasy world and I now somehow have to squeeze in kung-fu fighters somewhere…” even when it didn’t make any sense in regards to established lore.
Likewise I feel that in a world so distinctly materialistic like that of Grim Dawn a character that categorically defies the necessity for weapons might go against the underlying theme of the world; even if you’d make it a boxer instead of a eastern martial arts specialist.

Appart from that there would be other considerations, most importantly the attack animations necessary for portraiting skills that would fit into the “I don’t use weapons but I also am no sorcerer” theme. If we had a martial artist mastery in the game then I would want things like roundhouse kicks, power punches, flying kicks, or other more or less artistic portrayals of body control - and those would need all new animations, something that Crate seems to have shied away from since the beginning.

They actually had a monk class in Gary Gygax original AD&D. AD&D (advanced) was more complicated rules than DnD (by Gygax) which was bare bones simple. AD&D was crazy complicated with rules for paying taxes and things in your game world :stuck_out_tongue: In that rule book Monk had some thief skills which weren’t things you choose to put points in rather just increase with level across the board. Monks also had some other things I can’t exactly remember from those AD&D rules like how far they can fall without damage while near a wall. I think they changed the name to DnD second edition for marketing. They didn’t want people to think it was too complicated that they couldn’t try it?

Well, there’s Eastern robes, gloves, and legguards! So it’s established there’s an East in Grim Dawn too. Martial artists are also materialistic in that they’re favoring weapons that are attached to themselves (can’t be lost or stolen). Not following your logic there.

That said I agree a kung fu man would not fit. Easterners showing up in the West is also really awkward and rare in actual history. They’d be better portrayed as a relative of the shamans, using some sort of intense mental state (reinforced by spiritual entities) to become powerful barehanded.

That reason is why I haven’t suggested kicks. Personally I don’t think it’s important - the reason I suggest a barehand class is because I think giving up some gear slots to shift power elsewhere (to the skill tree) would be interesting and a unique dynamic. And we’re short on physical classes compared to other things, while barehand is a weapon choice the game hasn’t touched yet, despite having an animation for it. Beyond those two points I have nothing vested in the idea.

Diablo 2 LOD had an additional damage stat for Assassin on boots, to be used as the base damage for their kick skills.

Something similar could be done in Grim Dawn for gloves to accomodate the mastery, and basing their skill damage on the glove base, not the equipped weapon.