[Mechanics] Global Elemental dmg converted to X now occuring *last* in order (*after* single ele>X)?

Erm, well the common knowledge was confused due to 2 things:

Firstly, Zantai left the explanation at this:

ZantaiCrate Employee - Designer

Oct '17

There is a degree of sequence to how the conversion is applied.

Basically, the game tallies up all the conversion of X to Y together, then applies them. It then tallies up A to B, then applies it. Etc.

So in your case…you have Elemental to Aether, and Fire to Aether. To the game, these are different “types” and so they are applied sequentially. The order of events this occurs in would take some digging, but not sure it’s that important.

This occurs twice, first for conversion from skills, and then for conversion from gear (essentially the game tallies up conversion on skills and item independently, so Aether to Elemental on a Skill would be considered a different “type” from Aether to Elemental on an Item).

Under no circumstances can damage be converted twice though (ex. can’t do fire to aether, then aether to chaos)

Then it was apparent that the elemental order could be affected by the order of item equipping, if you were splitting to different damage types.

Ofc, if everything converts towards the same type, which is the typical case, it is a moot point and the order does not matter. The multiplication is the same no matter which order.

But this was one of the rare cases where damage is split to different types. The issue was reported over 1/2 yr ago.

I’m still not sure that Crate fixed the bug/feature but it looks like it may be the case now. I’m a bit skeptical and would like to see more confirmations; idk if it is a priority, since it is fairly rare.

So you are 100% certain that the bug is fixed and elemental is always second in the order, regardless of item equip order?

Well, whether it was known about before or not, the apparent continuing confusion over how elemental conversion behaves exactly should still make a(nother) clarification of the facts helpful to at least some part of this community, right? :see_no_evil:

Spreading tidbits of (mechanics-related) info out in separate small threads like this one seems kind of unhelpful, though.

Maybe we should just submit stuff like this to info collections like @malawiglenn’s guide on game mechanics, as kind of a comprehensive complement to the game guide? Because that one feels really helpful not just for beginners but for anyone uncertain about some of the trickier mechanics questions (at least that’s what it did for me a few times) :slight_smile:

That is, if malawiglenn would be ok with this.

Was it really known, though? :stuck_out_tongue: I still remain unknowing of any hard evidence supporting this statement, whilst there appears to be plenty of the same when it comes to the ‘%ele conversion applies first’-theory (regardless of who might or might not have put it all out there first) :face_with_monocle::nerd_face:

In any case, you really helped me up my testing game yesterday, so please don’t apologise for that!

^Used to be on the old forum. I remember fluff directing me to it back when I first started crafting. Admittedly, I could be misremembering what I read.

Is this the link you’re thinking of spanks?

That one just showed us that ele>X & single ele>X conversion have to happen at different points in the conversion order, but not which order that is exactly, right?

Unless I’m missing sth.

Edit: man, we really need that updated mechanics stuff compilation…

Yes. And oh god, lol. I found it. My very first post:

^And it got replies from the OG vets like weyu, sotnik, etc.

EDIT: Looks like I was indeed misremembering. Apologies. :stuck_out_tongue:

But this still seems to insinuate to me that ele>X goes before e.g. fire>X, and not the other way around…

If that’s still what we’re going for, here

Sure, but it’s also rather clear that it’s based on his assumption. Then all the other less intelligent primates (e.g. like me) went on to spread this like the gospel. :stuck_out_tongue:

Kinda like an internet game of telephone. Nice to finally ascertain that single elemental damage types take priority in the conversion sequence though.

I guess so :stuck_out_tongue:

But at least you worked to repent for your sins in the sweat of your brow :wink:

(Bible slang meter: over 9000 and rising…)

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Well. What can you say for next example:
Orb of C’hthon buff converts ele to chaos and Warpfire converts cold to fire. OFF (My favorite test skill) Cold damage totally converts to chaos that means ele have priority over cold.
On the other hand, Oathkeeper Path of the Three converts fire to acid, and firestrike split fire conversion between acid and chaos, that means fire have priority over ele.
There are many other examples where order of gaining conversion (order of item equiping in particular) influence final damage.

I believe it was me a hammyhamster unless you have more ancient history in mind. It was around Back then the order depended on the order of equipping gear.

Interesting. So if I’m understanding you correctly, there is no fixed sequence in the order of conversion when it comes to single elemental damage conversion and elemental damage conversion?

As for the blood orb/warpfire test…IIRC, warpfire SHOULD take precedence over blood orb. you should be getting 50% fire, and 50% chaos.

^Can someone smarter than me confirm this? Because if I’m right, it’s definitely a bug.

As I see it, there is peobably more difficult sequence.

Dear god, please, no! :tired_face:

Can you maybe post a screenshot of your OFF tooltip dmg breakdown with warpfire & blood orb?

I did try the gear equipment order thing with my vit oppressor btw.; the conversion didn’t change for me regardless of how I did it, at least on that build…

Maybe you need to have over 100% conversion just from gear to see different results or sth. (mine only got there with Pot3)?

Sure, later today

Cool :slight_smile:

I just kinda wanna figure out how all this crazy fits together, now…


Here’s to hoping that a dev will reply to this thread. It’s all very confusing.

There was a conversation on the forum between Zantai and Jov, where he asked about this.

Iirc Global elemental conversions come first, and then the ones that target single elements.

It’s not the case mate. We dug up ALL the posts with you, JoV, Z, and me here in the thread.

At the end of the day, Z said something along the lines of, ‘determining the order would need some digging into’

I’ll look again. But the order is reflected in the numbers i get sometimes in game