Meta Build Devotion Discussion

I got bored and made a list of the devotions in the top 20 list.

The unsurprising conclusions
Matching damage types + RR devotions is common
Tortoise is everywhere (2x the density as the next most common one)
Tier 1 is slightly more common than tier 2, but tier 3 has a huge density dropoff
Tier 3 has a lot of unused ones
Pet constellations don’t show up because pet builds didn’t make it

The surprising conclusions
Less Behemoth than I expected
Crab was the most common tier 2
Tier 2’s spread was a lot flatter than tier 1

Unused constellations
Korvaak
Tree of Life
Ishtak
Aeon’s Hourglass
Spear of the Heavens
Staff of Rattosh
Ulo the Keeper of Waters
Light of Empyrion
Scarab
Solemn Watcher
Chariot of the Dead
Mantis
Vulture
Fiend
Wretch
Imp
Tsunami
Bull
Lion
Falcon
Crane
Hammer
Akeron’s Scorpion
Shepherd’s Crook
Nighttalon
Anvil
Bysmiel’s Bonds
Quill
Empty Throne
Typhos, Jailer of Souls
Rhowan’s Scepter
Wolverine
Affliction
Mogdrogen the Wolf
Huntress
Oleron
Attak Seru
Leviathan

1 build wonders:
(tier 1)
Gallows
Eye of the Guardian
Dryad
Rat
Harpy
Hound
Bat
Scholar’s Light
(tier 2)
Assassin
Blades of Nadaan
Bard’s Harp
Scales of Ulcama*
Berserker
Magi
Hydra
Wendigo
(tier 3)
Ulzuin’s Torch
Blind Sage*
Rattosh
Unknown Soldier

And here’s the spreadsheet
GrimDawn_1.2.0.x_Devotions.zip (23.1 KB)

9 Likes

was used on pyran though.

was used as 2 points on korba and as full devotion on dm.

Thanks for the correction. Raven had 7 total, so it shouldn’t be on there. I edited it out.

I waffled on Berserker because of those 2 points. The lack of full constellation + no skill made me discount it. I also tagged a few others (such as 2x half of Scales) in that zone.

Another example judgement call is overcounting 3 point Rhowan’s Crowns because of Elemental Storm. I think 6/20 is a better representation of the devotion meta than 4+2/2 / 20.

There are way less T3 than T1 to begin with. Therefore I’m Not sure if those two are comparable anyway.

Edit:
Actually not rly sure if thats correct.
But: One build can use way more T1 than T3.
So, same: Uncomparable.

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glad i’m not the only one puzzled/mulling over that inclusion
tier3 requiring 20+ affinity, with tier1s requiring 1 should kinda make it obvious that there will be less tier3s in use at the end :sweat_smile:
heck, the more tier3s you go for, the more tier1s your path requires to save points

Phoenix Fire devotion on Pyran Shieldbreaker GT link is missing a skill assignment.

It’ll be on the Pyran skill. When builds are imported from a save file, GT sometimes doesn’t link skills from items and their devotion procs. I guess devos are loaded before items are.

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Unused constellations
Korvaak
Tree of Life
Ishtak
Aeon’s Hourglass
Spear of the Heavens
Staff of Rattosh
Ulo the Keeper of Waters
Light of Empyrion
Scarab
Solemn Watcher
Chariot of the Dead
Mantis
Vulture
Fiend
Wretch
Imp
Tsunami
Bull
Lion
Falcon
Crane
Hammer
Akeron’s Scorpion
Shepherd’s Crook
Nighttalon
Anvil
Bysmiel’s Bonds
Quill
Empty Throne
Typhos, Jailer of Souls
Rhowan’s Scepter
Wolverine
Affliction
Mogdrogen the Wolf
Huntress
Oleron
Attak Seru
Leviathan

From the list of “unused” devos here’s some opinions on good / mid / bad devos. Each “tier” is roughly from least to most needing changes. Very simply: Tree needs less than spear. Lion needs less than hourglass, etc.
Good:
Tree of Life - Very strong defensive proc, It’s probably not ever seen on top 20 lists because they’re for softcore. Tree is used all the time on HC and is very good at what it does IMO.
Huntress - Optimal on all Bleed builds
Mogdrogden the Wolf - Optimal on all Bleed builds
Falcon - Optimal on all bleed builds.
Solemn Watcher - Currently meta. Very strong defensive node. Will probably be meta every time the optimal defense is having 3k+ DA.
Eye of Korvaak - Good proc, good nodes. The 20% chaos res node is lacking but I use this devo in a bunch of aether setups. Not that hard to pair with spear or hourglass either.
Anvil - Taken with a lot of phys purple shield builds. I have a build or two that uses this currently. It might need a slight tweak but generally I like anvil. The problem is with other t2s/t3s incentivizing a different path, not really with anvil IMO.
Bull - Good on internal trauma builds. Might be niche because IT is niche, but doesn’t need changes imo.
Imp - Good proc.
Wretch - Useful in a bunch of Blue or Green heavy devo paths for point efficiency. Has Racial damage. Could maybe use a slight boost but I think it’s fine. I use this more than Lion from my “mid” list.
Fiend - used on a lot of fire / chaos builds. Many chaos builds prefer Guardian’s Gaze because of the ADCTH and it hitting slightly harder. Could consider adding that ADCTH to fiend just to make the procs a little more comparable.
Spear of the Heavans - Good nodes, the proc hits fairly hard. I have started to go between this and tempest in some lightning setups. I think some crab + tempest setups might produce better results than trying to fit spear.
Oleron the proc is good, the constellation itself is stacked. The route is just suboptimal to the Sands / Vire route that’s seen often. One reason is RR. Sands / Vire can fit scales fairly easily if needed. It’s harder to fit RR on oleron routes. IMO

Kinda Mid for various reasons (IMO) -
Lion - Now that turtle doesn’t have phys res this is one of the sources of phys res left in the devo tree. I think this will see more use. I use this fairly frequently. I think it should be buffed to 3% phys res. Lotus is 3 pts (Crossroads + right path) for 3% versus lion being 3 points for 2%. Otherwise for just phys res I’d almost always prefer jackal at 3pts for 2res since jackal has the speed. This is probably the best of what I consider “mid” from your unused list.
Mantis - I don’t normally take this on pierce builds. They can’t fit it. It’s good, I just don’t think it’s on the right side of the map. I really wish this and crane swapped positions. The issue with fitting mantis is that most pierce builds want unknown soldier + shifting sands + scales + 4 pt ulzaad. To take mantis it would take a pierce builds that: Has it’s own RR so it doesn’t take scales, and doesn’t get more value using those points for AS, or cunning % somewhere else or is already on the side of the map. My ranged valduun setup uses it and that’s about it.
Affliction - Hard to fit
Wolverine - Kinda mid, used in some oleron setups
Rhowan’s Scepter - I’ve used this in one build. The only time I really find it “fittable” is physical mace oleron builds which is essentially warborn. It’s really expensive compared to other weapon nodes and I don’t feel like it gives a lot.
Empty Throne - This is useful in deep purple builds and has some nice cc res. I wish it had more CC res. I would usually rather take something else and pick an item for CC res. Stun and Freeze are in my experience the easiest CC res to get. It would be a lot more enticing if it had entrapment which is a pain to get, and common. I feel like the multi use for pets is kinda what keeps it where it is.
Hammer - I use this in a build or two. It’s fine IMO. I don’t go out of my way for it, a lot of other t1s have better options but 3 pts for 4 purp is very nice here and there.
Vulture - I normally only take this in setups that need 8 red, and even then it’s still kinda niche. I normally take Jackal + Viper + Wretch + crossroads (12 pts - 8 red, 6 blue) Vulture setup for me very often looks something like Vulture + Viper + xroad or Vulture + viper + rev.
Scarab - Useful on some shield builds. The stun res should really be changed to something else as most the shield builds will already have it elsewhere, at least in my experience.
Ulo the Keeper of Waters - I don’t think this needs to be changed. It’s a nullification available to anyone. It’s weakpoint is that you have to have a free ability to attach it to. I wish it was a reactive debuff cleanse on a shorter cooldown to keep nullification a more unique part of arcanists but it’s obviously not strong enough for people to go out of their way for it.
Attack Seru - The recent buffs are really interesting. 4% OA / 6% DA. I might start trying this on aether builds that fully convert elemental damage. I think many aether builds are going to stay Blue/Pink though. This is more of a path choice than a t3 choice. I’d obviously prefer attack seru over spear.
Aeon’s Hourglass - Has probably seen it’s heyday come and gone. many of it’s nodes are very strong so I still see the constellation in use, but that’s more for the +40 all, 50% slow res, 25% entrapment res, and maybe the vit/aether res. I don’t see the DA / Avoid used as much and the proc isn’t built around like it used to be. I think some Diviner Reap Spirit spellbinders still build around it. It can also be tricky to play around.

Bad:
Chariot of the Dead - I think this is more useful while you’re leveling and it’s a large source of OA and slow res. I think most optimized builds won’t fit this though. There are better defensive options and it’s very expensive.
Leviathan The cold path is fairly optimized, and a lot of cold builds need the DR from yugol. A lot of those same builds benefit a lot from the ADCTH. It’s going to be fairly hard to buff this to make it comparable. Part of the problem is the route.
Quill - Useful for Green / Purple builds. I would never take this over toad in it’s current state. I’d rather have the racial damage on toad than anything on quill. Add racial damage to aetherials or something. I have builds that use attack seru / sage and they don’t even take quill. Quill being bad is probably one of the reasons leviathan sucks.
Crane - Incredibly Niche. -%spirit req on weapons at one point was useful but stats are easier to come by these days. I think Crane’s “Use” is the reflected damage reduction but that’s not as important as it once was. RDR is also on Solemn Watcher so there’s really no reason to grab crane. 5 yellow is useful from a devo point standpoint but just about every other method of acquiring yellow is better. Crane needs a rework / overhaul / massive buff IMO. This is the worst t1 node.
Tsunami - Both cold and lightning paths are very optimized and don’t take this in order to take better procs elsewhere. I can’t remember the last time I saw this used and tbh I don’t know what would have to change.
Akeron’s Scorpion - Acid builds generally want to go yugol / abom. This is actually kinda hard to fit with all the other procs. It’s an okay proc but it’s a lot more poison focused. I don’t even know if poison builds fit it. The visual is nice. I very often would rather take other procs on the route to yugol / abom.
Light of Empyrion - The last time I saw this used was on a pet build. The sole attraction IMO is the 24% DR. The proc hits hard. The nodes are lackluster, other than the racial damage. Given the current DA meta and the Blue / Yellow investment of solemn watcher I could see some fire builds considering using this now. I’ve never really cared for it.

Pet stuff IDGAF about:
Staff of Ratosh - One of the sources of total speed post rework
Typhos, Jailer of Souls - Good bulk
Bysmiel’s Bonds - pretty sure this is also commonly used by pet builds.
Nighttalon - Idk if pet builds even take this it looks medicore.
Shepherd’s Crook - Afaik this is an S tier pet devo.
Ishtak, The Spring Maiden - Idk about this. All the nodes look medicore then the proc looks incredibly strong.

Edit- forgot feedback for 1 node.

2 Likes

should maybe point out
it was good after the proc/ change
it’s become amazing after the phys res change - specially for casters/build with decent cdr, getting near permanent uptime on a fat 400 armour and free DA
it’s well worth to consider if also needing OA/can fit in the points and going green+reds, even if you don’t get the 33-35%cdr and is just stuck at a paltry 25%cdr, it’s some fat phys soaking assistance after 1.2.1

3 Likes

Oh I hadn’t messed with it much recently. That makes a lot of sense. I normally avoid it because it’s so expensive and I prefer to get slow res elsewhere.

Eh, I actually find it useful for the DA%, which can be very hard to get up to the minimum 2600 value, but yeah, it could do a boost frankly, because usually Toad’s better to take if you have to choose.

probably the most underused (and weakest) T3 devo together with Empyrion and Houglass.

don’t see problem fitting it into pierce or pierce/bleed map. as for Ulzaad, I haven’t seen it on pierce builds for a very long time (and I guess, for a reason).

very good if you have cdr, and even w/o it.

one can fit it in acid devo route pretty well, and it’s not like you build strictly for direct damage or dot in terms of acid/poison.

It’s an S-tier devotion to me for HC and cheap starter builds to farm ubers (Calla, Ravager, etc.).
Sure, if your goal is clearspeed then it’s not the devotion you ever want. It serves another purpose, after all.

Pierce builds dont need any Chaos (red) affinity. Well, you can try to fit it for extra 3% physres, but i dont think it’s worth it, there are better options.

I think Ulo and Crane are used in some pet builds, to cap their pets’ resistances. It’s not that easy to get enough poison res for pets without Occultist class.
Tsunami could see increase in % chance Fumble & Impaired Aim for its proc, as well as thier durations. Because mere 14% for 2s are way too low and inconsistent.
Let’s be honest - no one picks T1 devotion with proc just for stats. Proc is what makes those really good - be it Falcon, Bat, Imp, etc.

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I’ve actually used ulo in a few instances and ulo can be really really strong in group play (that exists right?)
Crane used to be better IMO, relatively. A lot of other things have been buffed and crane is just the same. Tsunami is absolutely the weakest T1 devo proc. I can’t remember any lightning build ever taking it. I think it’s been taking on a cold build here and there but also not common.

I really wish crane and mantis swapped positions and crane got redesigned. I would love so much for mantis to be a yellow or yellow purple node that fits with pierce builds that arn’t already taking Hydra and Kraken.

Pierce builds dont need any Chaos (red) affinity. Well, you can try to fit it for extra 3% physres, but i dont think it’s worth it, there are better options.

Correct; even if you do have extra points you benefit more from grabbing AS nodes or cunning% nodes.

It’s not that it’s hard to fit, it’s that there’s better options available for most builds. I just find it lackluster for the point investment. I’d still take it over tsunami tho lol.

armor piercing go brr

I wanted to add some thoughts about some of these devotions as well, as some of them can really use an overhaul:

Tree of Life - The Energy Regen in particular is really great, and the devotion would see a ton more use… if Scales wasn’t right there solving energy problems and providing flat RR on top of that. Especially as even casters incorporate some sort of weapon damage to provide a bit more sustain, I see Scales overshadowing everything else for a long time. It doesn’t help that the other Light - Water constellations are also very defensive in nature, and the other T3 constellations that require a ton of Blue affinity don’t make much use of the Light affinity (Purple - Water can synergize with Light - Water, but there are practically no Light - Purple constellations outside of Physical or Pierce builds which have far better devotion routes to take).

Anvil & Falcon: I shouldn’t be singling these out since nearly all the T1 constellations with devotion skills have this same problem; outside of Bat, which has a nice 3% ADCTH, all the nodes leading up to the proc are completely useless, making the entire devotion either entirely worthless or OP just because of a good proc. I wish some of these devotions got a little more oomph, as due to the necessity of a good devotion route to take multiple T3s, a 5-point constellation is going to be far worse than a 3 or 4-point constellation with the same affinity bonuses.

Rhowan’s Scepter: Unlike Berserker which is synonymous with Bleeding, Blades which helps out Pierce builds, and Lanturn which makes spellcasting better off, Maces don’t really have a universal theme to them. A good number of maces are strictly for retaliation builds. There are several maces that actively help Physical builds (Warborn, Leviathan, Voldrak’s Crusher & Avenger’s Mace are a few off the top of my head). Then a good portion of maces are Fire damage (Mythical Herald of Blazing Ends and a few 2H Maces like Shar’zul’s), but no Fire devotion map is going to include them, so I’ll leave it out.

I think the best thing that can be used for it is to make it a Retaliation / RATA style devotion with advantages to both Retaliation and cooldown Physical skills like Blitz. The only notable stats I see on this constellation are Armor, Health, and Petrify reduction, but as basically all Physical builds are either Soldier, Oathkeeper, or both, these stats are covered by the classes already. I think these stats are better replaced with flat Physique (to meet Heavy Armor requirements easier to stack Cunning), emphasize Trauma damage, & Crit Damage (crushing internal organs should lead to extra damage)

Vulture: This is a tough one where the nodes and affinities are extremely good, but since you never need more than 8 Chaos, there’s never a need to have it. Every node having OA, some resistances, and a great 5% Cunning / Spirit bonus has a ton of utility, but with T3 constellations requiring 18-20 Water / Green affinities, the 2 Chaos + 3 Water / Green constellations are just better for devotion routing. But Vulture is a good example of what I’d like other 5-node constellations to be like, the stats are good, even if there isn’t a build that can particularly make use of all of them.

Crane + Ulo + Light of Empyrion: The glaring problem with resistance devotions is that as offensive gear is buffed to add additional resistances, the resistance devotions become superfluous as the gear now provides both the offense and the resistances necessary to survive tough content. Devotions that used to pride themselves with how many resistances they can stack now need something else entirely in order for them to stand out. Yes, LoE has a damage reduction proc, but 20% Health and 10% Chthonic damage stands paltry compared to what Ulzuin’s Torch + Magi can provide. You’d need some specific build where the gear + classes provide more than enough offense, but needs the devotions for defense, and that’s just not how builds are designed nowadays.

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Ulo is fine for what it is / designed to do imo.

Crane should be swapped with mantis, make crane a purple / red and mantis a yellow or yellow purple. Crane itself probably needs to be redesigned anyways.

Light is just mediocre. I’ve seen some builds use it well and it’s nice to have an offensive option when you’re so deep in defensive blue yellow territory.

I think redesigning it to be rata / IT might be the best idea. Right now it’s split IT/Physical and you pretty much don’t want to take it for physical. Idk if any IT builds even take it.

No touching Crane. I still take it sometimes on Ishtak pet builds. Buffs? sure. But swapping colours? no, ty :triumph: .

Deserved pet build nerf.

i’ve seen some bleed builds/stuff from Roman? that uses Crane too
pretty sure there are some trauma bois out there too that’d be displeased with the affinity change on their routes grabbing golds and reflect resist
*and that’s if we even entertain the notion Z redoes affinities, which i think he’s vehemently rejected several times :sweat_smile: